Studying in Canada vs. China

[oulaian]

I'm a bit undecided on this issue.

I've been Teaching English in China, HK and Taiwan for the past three years (this past year I have studied semi-formally with TLI in Taiwan). I can speak pretty good, but can barely read or write. I love studying Chinese.

I left home (Ottawa, Canada) when I was 20 so I still have no BA.

I'm seriously considering getting a BA in Chinese from University of British Columbia so that I can have a proper BA AND continue my Chinese studies.

OR, I could go to Beijing and study there, but as far as I can tell, the certificate or diploma I would get would not be as impressive AROUND the world as a degree from UBC would. If I was to get into an undergraduate program at Beida or one of the big universities in Beijing, would the degree hold up as strongly as one from UBC would?

UBC's Chinese prgram is apparently one of the best in North America. How does the cost of university in Canada compare with that of Beijing? I'm having trouble finding the difference between degree programs and exchange programs in Beijing... are there internatonal student fees to take into account??

Hope someone can show me some more light... this forum has been so good to me already!

Thanks,

Ryan

[skylee]

I wonder if it would be possible for you to do a BA in Chinese in you can't really read or write in the language.

I am not sure of the entry requirements for Bachelor degrees for the Chinese language in western universities. But say, if I, a Chinese, were to do a BA in English in Hong Kong or UK or USA or Australia, I think at least I had to be fairly proficient in English (including reading and writing) and have basic knowledge on the literature or linguistics (depending on my focus).

I do not mean to discourage you. I just think that you may not be ready yet ...

[StealthyBurrito]

From my experience, what skylee says is not true at all. I've met dozens of Chinese majors, and a vast number have never taken Chinese before entering college. The majority just have an interest in Chinese, which is the only requirement I would consider important. Even in terms of credits, most universities will offer bachelor degrees to those students beginning from the most elementary Chinese courses. All they care about is that you take 4 years' worth of Chinese. The same goes for pretty much any foreign language major. It explains how some Americans can get degrees in languages nearly nonexistent in high schools, such as say, Swedish, or Tibetan.

To answer your question, I think I've heard of University of British Columbia once in my entire life (and that was an ad for grad schools in my university). Although this can probably be attributed to my being an ignorant American, I know Beida is a very prestigious university in Asia, and if you plan to do work there in the future, I am willing to bet $100 that more people will recognize Beida than UBC.

[geraldc]

To get into study Chinese at Chinese university wouldn't you need over a 7 or something in your HSK? It would take a couple of years tuition, just to get to that level. To study Chinese in a western university, you don't need to have any previous knowledge of Chinese at all. Infact, I've heard of couple cases where Chinese born in the UK, weren't allowed to take certain Chinese courses at London's School of Oriental and African Studies because the lecturers thought they would find it too easy, so they were allowed to audit the class, but they weren't allowed to get course credits for it.

I think degrees from Chinese universites hold up well in the west (well the Bsc at least), especially if you look at the number of Chinese post grad students in US and European colleges.

[oulaian]

thanks, stealthy.

I would definitely prefer to study in Beijing... as long as the degree I would get at beida would be recognized (and props-worthy) worldwide. I guess since it is so famous in and outside of China, it must carry some weight... especially in the coming years as China gathers more steam...

As for tuition, the beida site says yearly tuition (for humanities) is 26000RMB. What are the other fees? Are there international fees? Textbooks, etc..? Monthly housing/living expenses?

Also, in the frequently asked question section it says that people who show proof of getting intermediate b on the HSK will be exempt from the admission test. Does this mean that i have to be at that level if I want to get my four-year degree in for years?

A lot of questions, I know... I hope you, or anyone can help...

[oulaian]

thanks, gerald.

Yeah, I'm pretty new at this and the excitement of the chance of studying at beida may have blinded me somewhat. I seem to be able to speak rather well, my reading and writing is bleak as of now... I plan on spending this entire year studying here in Taiwan, then coming to Beijing... curious if it's enough time... how many characters would I have to know if I was to get a 7 on the hsk? Starting to get discouraged........ the see-saw has tipped back over to UBC...

[oulaian]

... and thanks, skylee!

[weixiaoma]

Please do not feel too offended by this, but I don't think Canadian schools are really all that renowned around the world. I see this more as a result of low population than anything else. Like Austrailia, Canada has maybe one school that would be recognized to the rest of the world if that. Most really high acheivers study in the US or maybe England. Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Caltech, Oxford, Princeton and Yale are the names that "get props" world wide.

Consider this: two physics professors of the University of Colorado at Boulder recently recieved the nobel prize for creating a 5th state of matter, and the school also has highly regarded engineering, business and believe it or not, east Asian langauge departments. The school is ranked #34 in the world. Have you ever heard of it? Most people know that if you can't get Ivy League, large state schools are the next best thing. But, will the name CU at Boulder win over any employers outside of the US? Probably not.

Now, it's true that Chinese Universities aren't that recognized either... yet. However, since your field of study is CHINESE, the normal rules don't apply. If I wanted to hire a Chinese major for his Chinese skills, I would want to be sure he really could communicate in Chinese well. Graduating from any Chinese college would look better than graduating from any American one except MAYBE those I listed in the first paragraph. Think about it this way: If you could choose between a Chinese person who majored in English at Beida, or one who majored in English in some no-name school in Alberta, who would you pick? Whose English would probably be better? For me, I'd go for the one from the no-name school in the middle of an English speaking country.

[Harvey]

McGill is a kick butt school in Canada.

And you don't need any prior language experience to get a BA in Chinese Language or even Chinese Literature in a university outside of China.

[oulaian]

I've actually decided to go to Chengdu...

The cram school I work at is closing down at the end of this month so the idea to move to China sooner has presented itself. Just got an email from Sichuan University 'inviting' me to study in February. Actually sounds quite good.

Anyone know of any other options in Chengdu to consider?? Any advice on Chengdu? Info is limited on this site...

[StraightArrow]

Although this thread concentrates on language and culture for the most part, and the comparisons therein, I take exception to comments regarding certain schools in the United States. The fact that the University of Colorado produces a couple of Nobel prizes depicts precisely what is right about the higher education system in the U.S.

The point is that you do not have to attend a "name" school to achieve success. In America, thank God, people from all walks of life and all levels of income have the opportunity to make it. Yes, Harvard, Yale, MIT, Stanford, Northwestern, et al, provide an exceptional education, and with the prestige that accompanies a degree from those schools you have a head start. But in the end you still have to prove yourself no matter the field you choose.

Although the comment about a degree from Colorado not meaning much outside the U.S. may be true, what is important is that it means something here, where the job market and the quality of life is the most desirable in the world. Students from all parts of the world flock to Canada and the United States for their education. Sadly, to no one's surprise many stay after graduating instead of taking their new skills and learning back to their own countries.

By the way, Harvey was right, McGill is a serous kick butt school, along with the University of Alberta.

[Desmond]

Thanks for complimenting the University of Alberta! That's where I am, and I'm doing a major in Chinese language, right from scratch. Great school.

The main thing you have to do when you're wondering "which university is more prestigious?" is just put yourself in the shoes of potential employers. The value of the location where you got the degree only exists in the minds of potential employers. So what are you going to do with your degree? In what field do you want to work? Where?

If you want to go back to Ottawa and jump on with a job needing your Chinese skills... well, you're from Ottawa. How would you feel right now if you had to hire someone to work for you doing Chinese language stuff? Do YOU see beida as being good? Or do you see UBC? Most interviewers aren't gonna go all over searching for which is truely the best; they use their own judgement.

As for me, I simply think "learned Chinese? learned it in China? he must know it a hellofalot better than any UBC graduate". And so your degree will seem better.

But I have a bit of a skewed opinion... I see what kinds of Chinese majors that my Univeristy pours out... me no likey. Many don't learn anything outside of the textbook, and I bet many don't even know how to use chopsticks!

Plus, learning Chinese it a non-chinese place? Booooring! I'm heading over there next year for sure!

[StraightArrow]

Desmond....good luck heading over there. It's obvious that you are still young and with all the adventures that come with youth. My sister-in-law graduated from UA this past year, and still resides in Edmonton. That's where my wife grew up, but she now resides here in the Chicago area.

I have attempted any number of times in this forum to acquire info on an immersion course in Shanghai but there seems to be no feedback available. My situation is different than most on here. I feel that the majority of posters are degree oriented, and their objectives do not align with mine.

I only need an immersion course that will force feed me Mandarin. I am an international flight attendant (as is my Canadian wife) and if I can gain conversational ability I will be able to fly Chicago/Shanghai next spring. Hopefully this forum will come up with advice on EF International Shanghai, or other non-degreed courses.

My best in your future studies.

[Desmond]

I've heard of immersion style courses at universities across china/taiwan. In Taipei I was reading about an (expensive!) option where you learn hours of chinese a day, meant to rapidly increase your chinese skills. I don't think it ended up as a degree, but rather as a certificate to show that your Chinese is at a certain level.

As for myself, I'm not trying to get a degree (have one already), but basically achieve similar goals to your own: to improve my Chinese as much as possible. Unfortunately I can't leave here right this moment, but after this summer I will!

If I find out more info, I'll let you know. But my first recommendation is just look into Shanghai universities and see what they have to offer.