Advice for developing and promoting new language learning course

[Moki]

Hello Everyone,

 

I am planning to make a language learning course focused on getting learners with zero language experience to a low to mid intermediate level. There are a few things that I hope to get advice on:

 

1. To make the course profitable and competitive globally does it absolutely need to be in the form of an app?

 

2. If the course was proven to be 25%-50% more effective at getting learners to become proficient in the course content up to at least a low intermediate level, what would be the best way to go about promoting it to become competitive with/overtake the existing language learning giant companies. Would this be possible with just one language or do multiple language courses need to be developed simultaneously?

 

3. Assuming the course is at least 25% more effective than anything else out there, how do I prevent the content/methodology from being copied by other companies/users before the course has a chance to take off. 

 

4. Assuming the full course content is already completely worked out up to the mid intermediate level, what steps would need to be taken to best ensure that it can be made into a profitable business and what time and financial investment would be needed to get the course to that point?

 

I am confident about the course itself, but have little knowledge of marketing, promoting, app development and running a business/company in general. The last thing I would want to happen is to build something amazing and have it just illegally downloaded and distributed for free or copied by a bigger wealthier company. I also want to be realistic about how much time, effort, and money it would require to actually profit from the course on a large scale.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much in advance!

[Jan Finster]

2 hours ago, Moki said:

1. To make the course profitable and competitive globally does it absolutely need to be in the form of an app?

 

Nowadays, not having an app version would almost certainly be a competitive disadvantage. 

 

2 hours ago, Moki said:

2. If the course was proven to be 25%-50% more effective at getting learners to become proficient in the course content up to at least a low intermediate level, what would be the best way to go about promoting it to become competitive with/overtake the existing language learning giant companies. Would this be possible with just one language or do multiple language courses need to be developed simultaneously?

 

To make such a claim you would need to do a study comparing your method to the competition. Otherwise it would just be another of those unfounded marketing claims.

 

When you study the language learning market, the big players almost always do multiple languages, because once you create the infrastructure (app, website...) for one language, the extra effort to add more languages is comparatively smaller.

 

2 hours ago, Moki said:

3. Assuming the course is at least 25% more effective than anything else out there, how do I prevent the content/methodology from being copied by other companies/users before the course has a chance to take off. 

 

Unless you can patent your method, there is no way. And be prepared: virtually all of the big companies' material can be found pirated somewhere on the internet. 

 

 

Not to sound pessimistic, but don't quit your day job yet.

[roddy]

4 hours ago, Moki said:

but have little knowledge of marketing, promoting, app development and running a business/company in general.

Give me a rubbish language learning methodology and experts in marketing, promoting, app development and running a business, and I'll build you a successful business. Give me the best language learning methodology in the world and none of the other stuff and I'll lose you a lot of money before breakfast.

 

If you're confident of what you've put together, but don't have the other skills (or the money to buy them), take a more traditional route. People are still publishing and buying paper+CD textbooks. Knock up a sample chapter and see who's interested. Tap into the resources of the publishing firms, or the people you currently see as competitors.

[Dawei3]

Jan's advice is excellent.  

 

4 hours ago, Moki said:

best ensure that it can be made into a profitable business

 

One thing you could do is to provide something unique.  The older Chinesepod lessons from ~2005 to around 2012 had instructors who you wanted to listen to as part of one's daily life.  They are really enjoyable people whose lessons I could listen to again & again (I still do).  I stopped my subscription after the company was sold, so I can't comment on their current teachers.  

 

Another way is using a truly superior teaching approach (as Jan notes, a proven one).  As much as I liked Chinesepod, I found Pimsleur's teaching method the best.  However, they have what Jan also mentioned, i.e., they teach many languages using a similar approach and I expect this helps their profitability.  While I spend most of my time with Chinese, I've also used Pimsleur for Dutch, German, Japanese & Tagalog.  I've found Pimsleur gives me real communication skills. 

 

In addition to the fact that I remember many things Pimsleur teaches, I know it's effective because friends from these countries have said to me "you don't speak with an American accent."  E.g., I have no idea what an American accent sounds like in Tagalog or Dutch, but Filipino & Dutch friends have commented I don't have one (to be clear, I speak just a little of both).  Or I was at a conference in which I tried to speak with a German woman.  However, I had been practicing Dutch and hadn't done German in quite a while.  She looked at me very quizzically and said in English "you speak German with a Dutch accent!"  哈哈!  Also, Pimsleur gets me to think in these languages, rather than trying to translate.  (I could sell Pimsleur as my side job...).

 

Hence, you need something that will differentiate you.  Pimsleur used to be just CD, then they brought in a desktop version and now it includes an app  I really like their app.  Hence, I agree with Jan, an app is essential.

 

 

 

 

[Shelley]

My advice is spend some time, like a day, searching all the language learning apps and courses. I don't think you will find and assess them all in a day.

 

There are so so many these days that you have really got to have a USP (Unique Selling Point). You will have to spend at least half your budget on advertising and at least half of that money will be wasted. 

 

You can't rely on word of mouth for any reasonable results.

If you do have something really unique and that really works, then you will have to spend a shed load of money to protect yourself or else it will just be hijacked and you will lose it all.

 

I don't want to sound depressing but this is one of those markets that is just flooded with apps, text books, CD, podcasts and more. There has been a huge surge recently in this area becuase it is so easy to do now with computers.

 

My honest opinion is use your method to learn chinese to a very high standard and then do something with that.

My first thought when I read the title was - oh not another one.

 

When I first started learning chinese 35 years ago there might have been 3 or 4 computer based ones and 3 or 5 book based ones (for chinese) now the floodgates have opened and there hundreds if not thousands for all languages.

 

I hope the best for you but I want you to be realistic and go into it well prepared.

[anonymoose]

49 minutes ago, Shelley said:

When I first started learning chinese 35 years ago there might have been 3 or 4 computer based ones

 

What computer were you using in 1985?

[Shelley]

My first computer was a BBC acorn atom, then ZX80/81, then a Commodore 64, then an Atari ST and a GRiD pen tablet running windows for pen v3.0.

On this I could run Asian Suite and write chinese characters and convert them to typed characters and pinyin. I also ran Chinese Character Tutor. There were also a couple of others I would have to search my old software to remember exactly (yes I have it all). There was the usual - Twinbridge, NJ star, Wenlin and Linguaphone.

 

This is the GRiD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GRiDPad

My model was the GridPad Convertible 2260.

 

This one https://randoc.wordpress.com/2018/04/29/grid-convertible-model-2270/

 

I still have my 2 GRiDs and lots of accessories. My pension 

 

About 1995 I got desktop running windows 95 and have progressed up to till today with win 7.

I also had a handheld electronic chinese dictionary brought back from HK for me in the late 1990s. Then an E-book reader that would display chinese characters and I could read chinese text on it. Then upgraded to an iPAC where I started with some language learning apps, but then I got my XDA running windows mobile 6 and found Pleco and have never looked back, that was about 2002ish.

[DavyJonesLocker]

have to agree with shelly, the market is flooded, the chances of you making profitable is pretty minimal. 

 

Naturally people want to encouraging but nevertheless a risk assessment needs to done. I wouldn't attempt it. There are loads of apps, you tube videos, learning material that promise to do a lot of things in upcoming release but the never get around to. Others who profess revolutionary ideas like mandarin blueprint , but learners sooner or later start seeing past all the bells and whistle eventually, promised shortcuts  and stop subscribing. That's why you see countless reviews like "I have been using this app 3 weeks and it's amazing", not "I have been using it for 4 years" e.g . Everything seems great at the start

 

Think about it, if people are willing to pay $5 or $10 a month , they want something good as there are other good (and often free) options that have already built on their momentum, rely on their economies of scale and large databases  (vids, podcast, teaching material etc )

 

Then again, it just my 2 cents on the subject , if you really believed it go for it but don't be blinded to the downside or try trivialize it. Good luck 

[Moki]

Thank you to everyone for all of the responses. It sounds like if I really want to follow through with this, I will need an app and a group of people to help with the areas like marketing and programming that I am not strong in. 

 

I do believe the product will be like nothing else out there in the market and has the potential considerably improve the learning efficiency and results, greatly speeding up the learning process and reducing the effort required to reach the mid intermediate level (and possibly beyond). To be honest I'm just worried that it will take up to much of my time in the end. I'm concerned that if I really go for it it will become a commitment that I can't just put half my energy toward or can no longer be a side thing. It just seems like such a waste not to do anything with it at all and if it were to really be successful could be more profitable long term than anything else I can do with work right now so I'm struggling a bit with the decision. 

 

If I do decide to pursue this, I would be clear up front about what it is, and what it isn't in terms of a language course. There are certain aspects of language learning that will not be the focus of what I am designing. 

 

Assuming the course actually was effective in keeping people interested and getting even the below average learner to a solid mid intermediate level in an abnormally short amount of time would it be better to charge a slightly higher fee once or go with a subscription model that keeps people interested more long term even after they have achieved a mid intermediate level? If the learners reach the desired level too soon I don't think a subscription model would bring in much profit for very long. 

[Jan Finster]

1 hour ago, Moki said:

would it be better to charge a slightly higher fee once or go with a subscription model that keeps people interested more long term even after they have achieved a mid intermediate level? If the learners reach the desired level too soon I don't think a subscription model would bring in much profit for very long. 

This is a common problem. If you are a brilliant lawyer and you can solve my case in 1 hour, you risk getting less money than the average lawyer, who would take 10 hours to solve my case.  In theory, the brilliant lawyer could either have a fixed fee for solving the case no matter how long it takes, or he needs to increase his hourly rates drastically. In your case, a subscription model works best if you want the learners to be hooked for months or years. If you except them to be done within 3 months or so, rather charge a fixed fee. However, not everyone will be willing to pay for a very expensive course. For example, this guy here (https://litaochinese.com/offers/) posts really nice videos on Youtube, but I would never ever pay that kind of money for the premium content.

[li3wei1]

Have you considered, rather than battling it out with the hundreds of other zero-to-intermediate solutions, going into the much less populated intermediate-to-advanced space? There are a number of disadvantages: fewer customers, customers will not all be starting from the same place, with the same vocabulary, and once you reach intermediate you're much less reliant on one single solution. But these disadvantages have scared off the competition, and there's very little out there.

I recognise, on a good day, somewhere around 2000 characters. I read, and I slog away with flashcards. If there was an app that could look at the words that I have to look up, and a) tailor my flashcards for efficiency and b) select texts for me to read, I would certainly give it a try. Imron's CTA is certainly useful, especially for (b). I've often fantasized about creating a 'character work-out' app, that would look at the mistakes you're making, and create smallish flashcard exercises to work on those mistakes, as well as to expand your vocabulary using characters you already know, and figure out which characters you need to learn to enable you to most efficiently expand your vocabulary.

And that's for me. I'm primarily interested in reading. Others want to work on speaking, listening, writing, or some combination. For each of these skills, there's a pyramid, with lots of material available at the beginner level, dwindling as you progress upwards.

[zhouhaochen]

On 2/6/2020 at 9:01 PM, roddy said:

Give me a rubbish language learning methodology and experts in marketing, promoting, app development and running a business, and I'll build you a successful business. Give me the best language learning methodology in the world and none of the other stuff and I'll lose you a lot of money before breakfast.

 

A bit sad, but this is sound advice and I say that as having started and run a Chinese language learning company for more than ten years now. Without being very strong in marketing and promotion you will not be able to get anywhere. Without a good product you will also not succeed in the long term, but compared to what is more important, I would say marketing (as I had to find out myself through rather painful experiences).

The main problem is that you cant prove all that stuff. 25% more effective? What does that mean? How do you prove it? And how do you get people to know about this? Even if you had a study with thousands of students and meticulously recorded their progress and show that you are 25% more successful, very few people would actually read a study like this for buying an online course. They will click the 25% discount if you buy now ad on google instead.

There was a time where Mandarin and China was so unknown that only very few people did and knew how to do it. Those days are long gone...now you have to fight very hard just to be seen. And if you are not seen it doesnt matter how good you are.

 

One of the reasons why we dont offer online learning courses....I dont want to compete with a million shitty apps who dont give a f*ck whether their students actually learn Mandarin, but have fantastic marketing efforts.

[Moki]

21 hours ago, li3wei1 said:

Have you considered, rather than battling it out with the hundreds of other zero-to-intermediate solutions, going into the much less populated intermediate-to-advanced space? There are a number of disadvantages: fewer customers, customers will not all be starting from the same place, with the same vocabulary, and once you reach intermediate you're much less reliant on one single solution.

 

I have considered this, but I think the issue is that in reality people who make it past the mid intermediate level seem to be able to eventually reach a pretty good level of advanced mandarin skill. It may take a few months or 10 years, but I think that is the point where people have a foundation in the language and some extent of motivation to keep learning even if it takes a while and has to happen with a wide range of resources and independently. The other issue is that once you are at that level it really is possible to pretty much use what ever resources you want to learn Chinese. That doesn't mean it is easy, but its just more interesting to reach an advanced level by pushing through resources and materials that you really have an interest in compared with texts designed for learning the language where the learner has little to no control on what topics and styles are covered. 

 

That being said there are definitely things I can and plan to do with the upper intermediate and advance, but it may be more of an excellent supplement to the many other existing resources rather than something all encompassing. For now, I am trying to create something that actually works for anyone, regardless of how difficult they feel learning languages comes to them or how intimidating Chinese seems. 

21 hours ago, zhouhaochen said:

There was a time where Mandarin and China was so unknown that only very few people did and knew how to do it. Those days are long gone...now you have to fight very hard just to be seen. And if you are not seen it doesnt matter how good you are.

 

One of the reasons why we dont offer online learning courses....I dont want to compete with a million shitty apps who dont give a f*ck whether their students actually learn Mandarin, but have fantastic marketing efforts.

 

This is very concerning. I want to be successful in both areas. Having the capability to market and promote well, but at the same time be something that can crush the competition in terms of actually caring about helping people learn and making content that can be used for a long time but has incredible payoff. Of course this is easier said than done and I hope to avoid as many painful mistakes along the way as possible. If you have anything specific that you think is important to be careful of in this process I would greatly appreciate any advice you are willing to share.

[zhouhaochen]

I would definitely be ready for plenty of painful mistakes and be aware that this will take a long time. Also have sufficient financial support, you dont make money in business in the first few years, but you have to invest a lot in my experience. You end up spending a few years paying quite significant amounts of money every month for the privilege to be allowed to work very hard without holidays, insurance, salary or anything else like that. This is not sustainable if you dont have some source of income or savings (online companies seem to get investment quite often, but I have no idea how to go about that - this might be the wrong forum to find out too).

The market for advanced learners who speak English is tiny, which is why there is so few products for them or when there are they tend to get discountinued pretty soon because just not enough people buy. Japanese, Koreans and Vietnamese have larger numbers of Mandarin learners who are at a higher level.

 

Maybe getting a partner who knows how to code, build apps and understands that part of the business and one who knows how to market things online would be an option?