Na3 li Na3 li

[Mike]

A: Ni3 shi4 na3 li ren2 ?

B: Wo3 shi4 Lun2 dun1 ren2

A: Ni3 de Zhong1 wen2 hen3 hao3

B: Na3 li, na3 li

In this conversation is it necessary to repeat na3 li to mean 'Not really'?

Is there an explanation as to why na3 li = 'whereabouts' and 'Not really" or is it just one of those things to accept.

Tnx.

[chenpv]

In this conversation is it necessary to repeat na3 li to mean 'Not really'?

No, one would be fine.

Is there an explanation as to why na3 li = 'whereabouts' and 'Not really" or is it just one of those things to accept.

This is an incomplete friendly sentence originally used to 'refute' the compliment you got.

The complete sentence might be:

不会吧，你从哪里听来的？ or 这是哪儿的事啊？

（Where did you get that saying?）

However, there are too many components of the sentence missing, we can not translate it literally. So we use a euphemism - Not really - to supplant the whole sentence meaning.

[gougou]

Interestingly, in German you can also reply "Where from?" to a compliment.

[atitarev]

Interesting that Russian language has a similar experession with the word "where" when you want to downplay your own achievements.

Translating 哪里,哪里 as "not really" is just one pssible version. You could also say: "You're flattering me.

[kudra]

The text I have also has

nar3 de hua4, as a response to a compliment, translated as

"you flatter me" in this case more explicitly "words from where?"

in addition to nali nali.

narde hua I would guess has more of a Beijing hua flavor.

Both are marked as Idiomatic Expressions

nali nali is glossed as you're welcome/you flatter me, whereas narde hua is only glossed as you flatter me.

[Ferno]

Interestingly, in German you can also reply "Where from?" to a compliment.

Interesting that Russian language has a similar experession with the word "where" when you want to downplay your own achievements.

same in Polish for both cases! interesting

doesn't make any sense if you think about it though, I wonder how this developed..

[gougou]

doesn't make any sense if you think about it though, I wonder how this developed.

I think chenpv's explanation quite makes sense, as in "Where did you hear that?"

Alternatively, it could be like "Where do you take that from?", i.e. in this case, what part of my Chinese makes you think so. Just guessing...

[Quest]

na3 li na3 li: wrong tones.

should be na2 li3 na2 li3

[atitarev]

na3 li na3 li: wrong tones.

should be na2 li3 na2 li3

I found the following comment in Wenlin' date=' isn't the last syllable neutral?:

哪里(裡) nǎli adv. where; (used for denying compliment)

Really pronounced náli.

nǎli is probably only used in the normal meaning but náli, náli for denying compliments?

[studentyoung]

Translating 哪里,哪里[/size'] as "not really" is just one pssible version. You could also say: "You're flattering me.

I once translated 哪里, 哪里 as “It is just so-so. ”

Thanks!

[kudra]

I think the point is that the li3 can be neutralized and usually is in the context of nali, but the na3 still gets modified to na2 regardless. Thus, na3li would never be heard.

Example, "Zai4 na2li shang4 che1?".

But without li(3) we have for example "Zai4 nar3 shang4 che1?"

On the other hand "Zai4 na3li shang che1?" sounds completely wrong to me. ( Caveat: it has been a while since I've had extended live conversations. so I would't bet the house on this.)

[Quest]

atitarev:

My understanding of the light tone is that it's not a real tone, and that each light tone retains some quality of the corresponding proper tone, so not all light tones sound the same.

You, on the other hand, seem to treat the light tone as a fixed tone just like the other 4 tones, I am not sure if that's the new understanding now, but I am all ears.

I don't remember hearing n3li before, and the reason that na3 changes to na2 is because li is a light 3rd tone.

[atitarev]

atitarev:

My understanding of the light tone is that it's not a real tone' date=' and that each light tone retains some quality of the corresponding proper tone, so not all light tones sound the same.

You, on the other hand, seem to treat the light tone as a fixed tone just like the other 4 tones, I am not sure if that's the new understanding now, but I am all ears.

I don't remember hearing n3li before, and the reason that na3 changes to na2 is because li is a light 3rd tone.[/quote']

I only hope to get to the bottom by discussing it, my Chinese is poor but I have references at hand and you guys - Native speakers to ask questions. It's all clear to me about the pronunciation of 哪里. LI3 has affected the previous NA3 and made it NA2 but lost its strength and became neutral. Neutral tones are a bit confusing to me but I thought that they sort of follow the tone of the previous syllable, not preserving their original tone, maybe I am wrong in this case.

I am also not sure how exactly to pronounce the 3rd tone in front of 1st, 2nd and 4th. Is it pronounced as abbreviated (half tone) with one one of the cases?

[HashiriKata]

I am also not sure how exactly to pronounce the 3rd tone in front of 1st, 2nd and 4th.

Make it "half 3rd tone" (the first half).

So, if followed by a 3rd => 2nd

If followed by a 1st, 2nd and 4th => half-third tone.

Therefore, you often hear a full third tone more from non-native than from native speakers. The full 3rd tone in speech is normally pronounced only if it occurs at the end of the sentence or phrase.

[xiaomawang]

Though it's not official, I always explain this to foreigners: na2li na2li could be understood as "Where? Where? I can't found it is in that way (you're thinking/saying)", that means "I disagree".

Mostly we use it as a polite reply when we get compliment. But we can use it directly to deny something as well. For instance,

A: ta1 shi4 ge hao3hao3 xian1sheng 他是个好好先生。(=he is a nice man)

B: na2li, cai2 bu2 shi4 ne 哪里，才不是呢。(=no, not at all)

A: ta1 de yan3jing xiang4 bi4xian2 na4me mi2ren2 他的眼睛像碧咸那么迷人。(=he has charming eyes like beckham's)

B: na2li xiang4/nar3 xiang4, yi4 diar2 ye3 bu xiang4. 哪里像/哪儿像，一点儿也不像。(=no, not at all)

In these cases, B disagree with A quite strongly.

[nipponman]

Quest, I have also believed that the fifth tone was a set tone, but what you say to me sounds like its right.