Effective ways to learn vast vocabulary and retain it in Longterm Memory

[Sreeni]

@Insectosaurus, the Jim Kwik did not invent new methods. He is basing on proven methods like Loci, Read faster etc.. and use his own experience to teach others as a profession and livelihood. He do provide evidences on his sites.  But one evidence from google search  is as below, but again I am saying this type of Memory techniques he did not invent. he uses the proven techniques and teaches others. 

 

https://www.google.com.sg/amp/s/simplyoutrageousyouth.org/2019/08/22/make-learning-studying-fun-for-kids-with-this-memory-technique/amp/

 

Questioning is very good way for any development. We should question and should be tough on issues soft on people. i do not see any personal things you are using against anybody. When I stuck with 为, you suggested to check in 4 th tone and it saved me lot of time. you are tough on evidences that whether those methods works or not. with right questions only we find the answers and improve. Please go ahead with questioning..

 

These were all proven techniques, but need to apply exactly which technique suits for our requirements. For every vocabulary same technique might not work.

[NanJingDongLu]

5 hours ago, Sreeni said:

Below is a bit different, but might help. will post original link when I encounter it later.

 

https://youtu.be/hfi0OiMuXcM

 

Here is a summary of this video:

1. Brain Foods
2. Killing ANTs (Automatic Negative Thoughts)
3. Exercise
4. Brain Nutrients (btw isn't this just #1? Aren't Brain Foods another word for foods that contain nutrients that your brain needs?)
5. Positive Peer Group
6. Clean Environment
7. Sleep
8. Brain Protection
9. Don't Stop Learning New Things
10. Stress Management

Most of this is not controversial, and surely has some amount of benefit, but they're also the last thing you should be thinking about after you've got the rest of your study plan working smoothly. Any tweaks you can make like in the list above are only add ons with marginal benefits (except sleep. I'd imagine poor sleep would have a big impact on retention).

 

You can eat avocados, salmon, and walnuts, go for a daily run, have a clean bedroom, sleep 12 hours per day, and walk around in a tin foil hat to keep the microwaves out as much as you like, but if you're only doing 2 hours of Chinese 1 day per week, always learning new things without reviewing previous lessons, and not practicing the language with (or absorbing media from) native speakers, you won't make a lot of progress.

[mungouk]

3 hours ago, NanJingDongLu said:

I'd imagine poor sleep would have a big impact on retention

 

There is research that shows that deep sleep is when long-term memories are actually formed. 

 

Which relates nicely to the comment earlier in this (?) thread about if you don't "know" a word for more than a day, you don't know it.

[Sreeni]

4 hours ago, NanJingDongLu said:

but if you're only doing 2 hours of Chinese 1 day per week, always learning new things without reviewing previous lessons, and not practicing the language with (or absorbing media from) native speakers, you won't make a lot of progress.

 

He suggests daily reading is better.we must not forget what methods are already working for us.

 

Coming back to evidence, can you try to remember the following colors in order. and confirm, how you remember?

 

• Green
• Orange
• Purple
• Blue
• White
• Black
• Pink
• Brown
• Yellow

[mungouk]

47 minutes ago, Sreeni said:

can you try to remember the following colors in order

 

I think most of us would agree that learning a language is quite different to memorising arbitrary lists of things. 

 

 

[NanJingDongLu]

3 hours ago, Sreeni said:

He suggests daily reading is better

 

My point is that you're asking the wrong question. You should really be asking what the best method is of "daily reading". Even in this thread a great discussion has taught someone a better method of "taking 1 hour classes with a teacher 3 times per week". Just because you're doing it, doesn't mean you're doing it effectively.

 

On 3/17/2021 at 4:38 AM, mungouk said:

At this level and above you really need to be learning the vocabulary for a chapter before you start working on it.

 

On 3/17/2021 at 9:26 AM, calculatrix said:

But WHY do you prefer learning the new vocab before even seeing the text?

  

On 3/17/2021 at 10:03 AM, somethingfunny said:

If you do it this way then you can spend class time using the words in discussion with the teacher, rather than asking the teacher the pronunciation/meaning and then trying to recall it along with the other 50 生詞 you’ve just learnt.

  

On 3/22/2021 at 7:55 AM, calculatrix said:

Both of you convinced me to question my learning schedules.
This week I will start trying to pre-learn the vocab.

 

This will have a lot more impact on your learning than how much "brain food" you incorporate in your diet, and whether you sleep with your phone under your pillow (another quote from Jim Kwik)

[Sreeni]

7 hours ago, mungouk said:

I think most of us would agree that learning a language is quite different to memorising arbitrary lists of things. 

 

 

The method, Story telling they used is already effective and some people already using it to remember pinyin and meaning together. Again Jimkwik did not invent Story telling, but he teaches proven methods, uses findings from newest experiments conducted in mind power research.

 

Coming to Vocabulary related techniques, he mentions TIP:Turn into a Picture, If a word is turned into picture you can remember better. how vivid and unique the picture it connects better. 

https://jimkwik.com/kwik-brain-034/

 

Even, this is not invented by him, he put an acronym as TIP uses it to connect to the image. I also know that attaching image works better, but i started applying after listening and reading Jim Kwik book this technique. around 60% of words it works better. As chinese is character based this worked for me for learning chinese. If you ask me this technique is my weapon for Learning Chinese. Try TIP for a week, daily and post your own findings.

[Sreeni]

18 hours ago, NanJingDongLu said:

but if you're only doing 2 hours of Chinese 1 day per week, always learning new things without reviewing previous lessons, and not practicing the language with (or absorbing media from) native speakers, you won't make a lot of progress.

 

true. agree 100%.absorbing is very important. 

 

In the “Limitless” mindset book what Jim says is Self Talk is important.

 

At EOD you can think of what you have studied that day. what are the things working to achieve your goal (5 words per day/ one episode of chinese program/ 2 pages of novel/ whatever goal suits to improve chinese personally)? 

 

what are the things not working? how to overcome the issues? check what might work. just review it for one or two minutes daily

[Moshen]

Quote

TIP:Turn into a Picture, If a word is turned into picture you can remember better. how vivid and unique the picture it connects better. 

 

I am happy if this works for you.  Not all of us are visual learners, though.  If I can turn something into a melody I remember it much better.

 

As I've said a zillion times on this board, what works for some, even what works for the majority, does not necessarily work for all.  And it's educational malpractice to claim otherwise.

[NanJingDongLu]

8 hours ago, Sreeni said:

In the “Limitless” mindset book what Jim says is Self Talk is important.

 

At EOD you can think of what you have studied that day. what are the things working to achieve your goal (5 words per day

Hold on, the topic of this thread is "how can I learn 1000 words per month and retain it in my long term memory". How many days are you going to self talk about what you learned? Or do you not self talk the 30+ words you learned today, but just meditate on the process? When do you actually look at the list of words you were memorising for a second time on another day?

 

Have you actually tried this method? You posted this thread 8 weeks ago now, so presumably you've been trying it out? How's it been working for you? Have you successfully memorised 2000 words yet? What is your current routine for studying Chinese?

[realmayo]

1 hour ago, Moshen said:

Not all of us are visual learners, though

 

I'm not jumping in here simply to be a smart-arse, but - the idea of "learning styles" e.g. visual learner etc, appears to be a myth - so, if what's working for you works, that's great, but if your sense of what should or should not work for you is being influenced by this false notion that you're ill-suited to one particular "learning style", you may be slightly holding yourself back unnecessarily.

[Moshen]

Quote

I'm not jumping in here simply to be a smart-arse, but - the idea of "learning styles" e.g. visual learner etc, appears to be a myth - so, if what's working for you works, that's great, but if your sense of what should or should not work for you is being influenced by this false notion that you're ill-suited to one particular "learning style", you may be slightly holding yourself back unnecessarily.

 

I actually didn't cite any theory of learning styles.  I simply reported my experience.  I don't learn well using mental or actual pictures.  I never have.  I do learn well auditorially, from the sound of words.

 

And I am far from unique in that.

 

People learn differently.  I don't know why that's such a hard concept to understand.  The conviction that what works for some or for many others will necessarily work for you can hold you back unnecessarily in a big way.

[realmayo]

 

37 minutes ago, Moshen said:

I don't learn well using mental or actual pictures.  I never have.  I do learn well auditorially, from the sound of words.

 

So does almost everyone else when it comes to languages! Human brains evolved to learn language based on the sound of words. In this respect, I'd say you're not learning differently, you're learning the same as everyone else with good hearing.

 

But it was just seeing you write "Not all of us are visual learners" that prompted me to comment, because I don't think there is such a thing as a "visual learner". Although of course, someone with sight problems would face particular disadvantages.

 

1 hour ago, Moshen said:

People learn differently. 

 

This is true but that will probably be just down to (a) preference and (b) subjective evaluations. Objectively, the same learning methods should have the same results in different people. However given that people need to motivate themselves to study, personal preference is very important!

[mungouk]

3 hours ago, realmayo said:

"learning styles" e.g. visual learner etc, appears to be a myth

The theory of Visual-Auditory-Kinaesthetic (VAK) learning styles is based on discredited neuroscience, yes. Unfortunately this was taught in teacher training for years, but nobody ever seems to get any message after the training that it's not recognised any more.

 

https://www.britishcouncil.org/voices-magazine/four-reasons-avoid-learning-styles-one-alternative

 

However, learner preferences are widely acknowledged. As reflective learners we know if we have a preference for using diagrams, colour, sound, videos, paper, screens etc in our learning, and this is still entirely compatible with recognising VAK as discredited.

 

 

[NanJingDongLu]

It sounds a lot like the classic dieting advice "the best diet is the one you'll actually follow".

 

If someone says the don't like doing SRS flashcards and they're too nervous to speak to native speakers, then that method of learning isn't likely to be done consistently and won't show much in the way of results.

 

If they really enjoy writing out word lists over and over again, even though it's not the most efficient way of learning, if they do it consistently for a year they will definitely improve and that's all that really matters.

[realmayo]

I agree we know if we have a preference, and it's also likely to be the case that we'll be better motivated doing what we prefer.

 

The only issue is where there's no real alternative to a type of study that someone either doesn't prefer, or believes themselves ill-suited to. Someone who believes themselves to be a visual learner will still have to learn to distinguish the sounds of tones. But each mistake they make will feel doubly bad because they believe that their brain just isn't good at auditory learning. Indeed they might try to compensate by visualising the tones, but that's probably not going to help because as we know, real life tones do not fit the diagrams we're shown on page 1 of textbooks.

 

But what they need to know is that everyone finds tones hard, that they're not in fact particularly disadvantaged. They might feel they're learning slower than others, but it's not likely to be true, in a like-for-like environment.

 

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool.”

[Sreeni]

5 hours ago, NanJingDongLu said:

Have you actually tried this method? You posted this thread 8 weeks ago now, so presumably you've been trying it out? How's it been working for you? Have you successfully memorised 2000 words yet? What is your current routine for studying Chinese?

 

Pls see my post on 30-Apr in this thread itself. in 2021 goals I mentioned that my goal is to learn 5 words per day. I learnt 200 words per month say 6 words per day.

“

@Moshen it motivates me to try, never mentioned it worked for me. 1000 words per month is 35 words per day. I was asking whether anybody tried. But for some other people (as per the comments) also it worked.

 

for last 3.5 months, i am actively learning and I learned ~700 words and working on issues like retention of those vocabulary. Some words already forgot. Anyway let me try”

 

Anyway are you native chinese or non native,  learning chinese? roughly howmany words you know? 

 

I have to finish 3 chapters (from my boring text book)and it has 25,16,16 vocabulary Let me try and post my experience for next 3 days. My  primary technique is TIP, but it works for  50-60% of words and I will switch to mnemonic or story telling or normal repetition learning  etc. for remaining 40-50% of words. If anybody else wants to try give a try

 

 

 

Day - 1 List:

 

1毅力yili 2入侵d qin 3不朽bu xid 4硕果shuo gud 5辉煌hui hudng 6告诚gao jie 7荒废hudng i 8勤能补拙qin neng bd zhuo 9一帆风顺yi fan feng shun 10荆棘jing ji 11泥泞ni ning 12沼泽zhdo ze 13逆境ni jing 14厄运自yun 15打垮da kua 16不屈不挠bu qu bu nao17挑战tido zhan 18祖邀zu ti 19爱迪生di di sheng 20韩愈han yd 21锋feng 22磨砺mo li 23梅花mei hud 24羚羊ing ydng 25繁殖fan zhi

 

For remaining 2 days you have any other lists you can paste it here. I will try those, else i will give my 16 + 16. If anybody else try we can share feedback better 

 

 

[NanJingDongLu]

3 minutes ago, Sreeni said:

Anyway are you native chinese or non native,  learning chinese? roughly howmany words you know?

 

I am from the UK. I am an English native speaker, and have no family ties to China. I went to China for a year at roughly HSK 1 (maybe half way to HSK 2 but I never tested) to attend language school full time in Shanghai. I studied 3 hours of textbook based classes and 1.5 hours of character classes 5 days per week. Before I left I passed my HSK 5 exam with a grade I am proud of. Accordingly, I estimate I know approximately 2,500 chinese words.

 

The reason I say I think you're asking the wrong questions is because before I went to China I was studying 3 x 1 hour per week with 1 on 1 online classes, and I made more progress in 1 month in China that I did in 1+ year of online classes. I simply didn't try hard enough for the online classes. I didn't put in enough preparation between classes, and so the time spent in the classes was inefficient. When I went to Shanghai I took it so much more seriously, and considered learning as much Chinese as possible every day to be the most important thing I was doing.

 

To actually answer your question on how to best learn - based on my own experiences - the things I did that were most effective were:

• Pleco or Anki flash cards with a Spaced Repetition System aka SRS. Make sure when you get a word wrong you go into the dictionary and read through all the definitions and example sentences. Make sure you've actually understood it. If you get it wrong more than twice after you've already learned it you should try to find excuses to use this word more often.
• Our teachers would set us homework after we finished a text/chapter in the book to go away and write a paragraph about a topic related to it. Read an ancient Chinese fable? Tell a story about a time something similar happened to you. You can adjust the length of these topics based on how advanced your ability is. I would challenge myself to write a story using every new word/grammar rule we learned in the lesson. Protip: The story doesn't have to be true or even believable.
• Group the words you've learned together into related lists. These weren't the goal of my studying, they were just something I compiled as I went. I've included screenshots for what I made. In the end I had 31 lists, some much longer than others. It really helped me to have a place to put those words that you shouldn't be studying (it's not a priority to know the name of every fruit, or every item of clothing), but if you actually do need the word again, you know where to look to find it. I think it's almost as important to decide which words not to learn as which ones you should. You've got to prioritise.
• Practice, practice, practice. Speak to people. Make mistakes. Sound like an idiot. Say it wrong. But make sure you're trying to use it. I had one classmate who was 10x better than me at reading speed/comprehension, but if you tried to have a conversation he was really slow and couldn't follow if you spoke too fast. He had learned at school in a group environment where everyone read the textbook and listened to the teacher, but rarely got the opportunity to speak. One of my teachers told us Americans learn faster than Europeans at the beginner level, because many Europeans are too shy and polite to say nothing important in broken chinese, but the americans would learn the word for library and go "woah dude, did you see the 图书馆 over there? Let's go 看 some 书, bro" or "damn 老师, i'm so 渴, class后 i'm going to 走路 straight to the 店 to buy 一瓶可乐". Obviously it's a silly generalisation but it shows the importance of practicing at all costs, even if you're not quite sure how to say it.
• Absorb media appropriate for your level. I read Graded Chinese Readers, I went to a supermarket and bought children's books like Aesop's fables with Pinyin (the tortoise and the hare, etc.) I even found a pdf version for you of the one I bought. While in line for a museum I saw a 10 year old boy reading a comic book and I made friends with him and his Mum and they showed me the book - There are over 60 of these "My first science comic book" These are perfect for learning more 口语 if you're worried your textbook is too focused on 书面语. I also highly recommend The Chairman's Bao so that you can listen to the pronunciation as well. Watch TV shows appropriate for your level. Find excuses to solidify what you've already learned without simply moving onto the next chapter in the text book.

This is a quite the wall of text, but I hope you find some of it useful. I should probably make brevity a goal of mine going forward though...

[NanJingDongLu]

1 hour ago, Sreeni said:

1毅力yili 2入侵d qin 3不朽bu xid 4硕果shuo gud 5辉煌hui hudng 6告诚gao jie 7荒废hudng i 8勤能补拙qin neng bd zhuo 9一帆风顺yi fan feng shun 10荆棘jing ji 11泥泞ni ning 12沼泽zhdo ze 13逆境ni jing 14厄运自yun 15打垮da kua 16不屈不挠bu qu bu nao17挑战tido zhan 18祖邀zu ti 19爱迪生di di sheng 20韩愈han yd 21锋feng 22磨砺mo li 23梅花mei hud 24羚羊ing ydng 25繁殖fan zhi

Btw most of these words are ridiculous. Almost none of them are in any HSK list, and most of them aren't words commonly used by native speakers. If that is what the rest of the book is like, I would change book if I were you.

[realmayo]

29 minutes ago, NanJingDongLu said:

Btw most of these words are ridiculous.

I had to look up 勤能补拙: qínnéngbǔzhuō f.e. ineptitude can be remedied by diligence. Maybe diligence will win out over an unusual choice of early vocab....