Chunn Posted September 27, 2005 at 01:56 AM Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 at 01:56 AM And if I want to talk about "wings" as parts of animal like bird wings, bat wings, which word is the correct one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kudra Posted September 27, 2005 at 02:13 AM Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 at 02:13 AM From Dialog 1, chapter 16, Spoken Standard Chinese, vol 2 Huang and Stimson( 1978 ) xi2 zi you3 liang3bu4fen. shang4biar zheibufen, shi niao3 de liang3zhi1 chi4bang..... /The character xi2 has two parts. the upper part consists of the two wings of a bird..../ then from the new words section chi4bang N (M: -zhi1) xin1 fei1ji1 de chi4bang, you3de da4ji2le. The wings of some new planes are extremely large/long. from mandarin tools 翅膀 chì bǎng /wing/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quest Posted September 27, 2005 at 08:50 AM Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 at 08:50 AM 翅膀 is Mandarin and only for animals 翼 is older Chinese, and used in modern Mandarin for technical terms like 机翼 翅 and 翼 have basically the same meaning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miss_China_so_much Posted September 27, 2005 at 10:45 AM Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 at 10:45 AM "翅膀 is Mandarin and only for animals " - Yes, humen have no wings! However I do wish I could have one! Yes, in mordern Chinese, "翅" usually is used for animals and "翼" for machines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashiriKata Posted September 27, 2005 at 10:59 AM Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 at 10:59 AM However I do wish I could have one! What would you do with just ONE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miss_China_so_much Posted September 27, 2005 at 11:13 AM Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 at 11:13 AM "What would you do with just ONE? " - ONE PAIR! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenpv Posted September 27, 2005 at 03:07 PM Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 at 03:07 PM Well, hard to tell. I think the usage depends on specific situations. But in scientific field, it is always better to use '翼' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kudra Posted September 27, 2005 at 03:43 PM Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 at 03:43 PM 翅膀 is Mandarin and only for animals [/Quote] So is the xin1 fei1ji1 de chi4bang' date=' you3de da4ji2le. The wings of some new planes are extremely large/long. [/Quote'] obsolete? or was it usage to accomodate 2nd semester students? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quest Posted September 27, 2005 at 03:57 PM Report Share Posted September 27, 2005 at 03:57 PM xin1 fei1ji1 de chi4bang, you3de da4ji2le.obsolete? or was it usage to accomodate 2nd semester students? 新飞机的翅膀有的大极了！ It sounds to me like someone talking to children， using 翅膀 on airplanes is metaphoric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunn Posted September 28, 2005 at 03:12 AM Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 at 03:12 AM So, if I want to order fried chicken wings at KFC, I should ask for 炸鸡翅膀 , but it sounds weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuchi Posted September 28, 2005 at 07:31 PM Report Share Posted September 28, 2005 at 07:31 PM So, if I want to order fried chicken wings at KFC, I should ask for 炸鸡翅膀 , but it sounds weird. Yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaijiMantis Posted September 29, 2005 at 08:46 AM Report Share Posted September 29, 2005 at 08:46 AM 翅膀和翼原意都是鸟类的前肢。后来有很多演变。 翅膀更为口语化一些。翼更为书面化一点儿。 书面语言中，基本上成语（比翼双飞）和术语（机翼）是不能用翅膀代替的。 口语里面，说“飞机翅膀”有一种幽默感，当然也可能是因为无知。 现在一般说炸鸡翅，不说炸鸡翅膀，后者太罗嗦。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashiriKata Posted September 29, 2005 at 11:22 AM Report Share Posted September 29, 2005 at 11:22 AM So, if I want to order fried chicken wings at KFC, I should ask for 炸鸡翅膀 , but it sounds weird. I completely agree with you! I first learned 翅膀 from a song, so whenever hear it, I always think of "灰了心房，折了翅膀". This seems quite a long way from KFC's fried chicken wings, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chunn Posted September 29, 2005 at 09:41 PM Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2005 at 09:41 PM 翅膀和翼原意都是鸟类的前肢。后来有很多演变。翅膀更为口语化一些。翼更为书面化一点儿。 书面语言中，基本上成语（比翼双飞）和术语（机翼）是不能用翅膀代替的。 口语里面，说“飞机翅膀”有一种幽默感，当然也可能是因为无知。 现在一般说炸鸡翅，不说炸鸡翅膀，后者太罗嗦。 原来如此！ 炸鸡翅比炸鸡翅膀好说得多。 If I haven't learned about this, I may ask for 鸡翼 at KFC, you can imagine how they will response me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quest Posted September 30, 2005 at 03:29 AM Report Share Posted September 30, 2005 at 03:29 AM If I haven't learned about this, I may ask for 鸡翼 at KFC,you can imagine how they will response me Actually, I think 鸡翼 is okay in this context, but it could be just me since in Cantonese 翼 is what's used for all wings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turing2020_yahoo Posted October 8, 2005 at 07:47 AM Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 at 07:47 AM Chunn: You cannot ask for a 炸鸡翼。You must say 鸡翅膀 or 炸鸡翅膀. Modern Chinese is based on Old Chinese. In Old Chinese, most of the characters are words(the smallest unit that can be freely used), and many words are composed of one character. But in Modern Chinese, most of the words are composed of two characters and characters usually appear as morphemes(the smallest unit that has meaning, used to form words), not words. Some basic characters can also appear as words in Modern Chinese. This shift, from word to morpheme, is most important to understand the vocabulary of Modern Chinese. 翼 is a character and represents the word in Old Chinese which means 'wing'. But this character has become a morpheme in Modern Chinese, so it doesn't represent a word in Modern Chinese any more. Keep it in mind that 翼 is not word in Modern Chinese. 翼 can only be used to form words like 机翼. When you learn characters , you should be careful about whether the character is word or not in Modern Chinese. Many characters are not word but morpheme in Modern Chinese. You'd better not learn individual characters at the beginning, but words(group of one or more characters). If you don't invent words, the knowledge about morphemes like 翼 is useless, though the knowledge can help you to guess the meaning of words. 翅膀 is a word, meaning the same. Why can we say 机翼 but not 炸鸡翼? Because 炸鸡 is a word, but 翼 is not a word. A word can form a larger unit(phrase) only with another word, not morpheme like 翼. 翅膀 is a word, so it is OK. 机 is a morpheme, so it can form a larger unit(word) with another morpheme 翼. 机翼 is a word, but 炸鸡翅膀 is a phrase. We Chinese don't have to know whether a character can be used as word or not. For foreigners, it is rather difficult. It is better to forget about individual characters. Never drown yourself in the details of thousands of characters when you cannot write them correctly. Learn characters as word or phrase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted October 8, 2005 at 02:06 PM Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 at 02:06 PM You cannot ask for a 炸鸡翼。You must say 鸡翅膀 or 炸鸡翅膀 I disagree. We say 炸雞翼 in Hong Kong all the time. Take a look at McDonald's menu (with 脆香雞翼) and also KFC's (with 蜜蜜燒雞翼 and 巴辣香雞翼) -> http://www.mcdonalds.com.hk/chinese/eatsmart/specials.htm http://www.kfchk.com/ If you don't invent words, the knowledge about morphemes like 翼 is useless, though the knowledge can help you to guess the meaning of words. I also disagree with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geraldc Posted October 8, 2005 at 03:13 PM Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 at 03:13 PM So, if I want to order fried chicken wings at KFC, I should ask for 炸鸡翅膀 , but it sounds weird So hot wings are 香辣鸡翅 on the mainland and 巴辣香雞翼 in HK. Any one know why it's 巴辣香 and not simply 香辣 in HK? http://www.kfc.com.cn/kfccda/product/valumeal.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted October 8, 2005 at 10:32 PM Report Share Posted October 8, 2005 at 10:32 PM 巴辣 makes the product name more catching, and emphasises the extent of the wings' taste (香辣得厲害). This is what 巴辣 means -> http://hanyu.chi.cuhk.edu.hk/chetio.asp?chetio=15582 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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