Question about gen1/yi4 qi3 usage...

[Ferno]

yi4 qi3 is 一起, gen1 is 跟 right?

anyway Pimsleur uses this a lot ie "ni3 xiang3 gen1 wo3 yi4 qi3 chi1 wu3 fan4 ma?" (would you like to eat lunch with me?) and says the gen1 is literaly "along with" and the "yi4 qi3" means "together"....

anyway a Chinese person I know says that you wouldn't use both gen1 and yi4 qi3 since uh... something about gen1 giving the meaning that you are making the invitation specifically to go with the person, and yi4 qi3 meaning that you are going anyway?? something like that, or maybe it's the other way around, basically you would use either gen1 or yi4 qi3... can anyone shine some light on this?

[ben-in-london]

My Chinese teacher told us today that 跟 gen1 is always used with 一起 yi4qi3 in this type of expression (she is from Beijing).

[necroflux]

I wouldn't say always, at least not according to what I've been taught. The yi4 qi3, as I am told, can be omitted unless you really want to emphasize the together part. Supposedly if just casually asking somebody to do something using the yi4 qi3 is "weird" (I guess similar to English in that regard).

Reading that line really brings me back to the Pimsleur days, I can still hear that guy's voice saying that in my head. Qing3 gen1 ta1 shuo1!

Can any pros shed light on this?

[nipponman]

My Chinese teacher told us today that 跟 gen1 is always used with 一起 yi4qi3 in this type of expression (she is from Beijing).

Be careful. Often in the beginning teachers may say things that sound like laws and absolutes, but since there is such a rarity of these things in this world, due dilligence should be taken when stating this "postulates". For example, In Japanese they tell you that私はお前を好きだ is wrong and you shouldn't use it. Well, this isn't true. They only say that so you can get used to saying 私はお前が好きだ.

So, back to chinese, if one were to say yi4qi3 without gen1, or vice versa, it may be colloquially acceptable. This will require some study IMO

[geraldc]

If someone used 跟, I'd always assume the other person led, ie invited you. You can leave out the 一起 as it just emphasises the fact you went as one group.

[stephanhodges]

Further on in Pimsleur (around lesson 21, I think), they point out that the second part yi4 chi3 can be omitted, if you're focusing / emphasizing something else. For example, the zai4.

[Quest]

anyway a Chinese person I know says that you wouldn't use both gen1 and yi4 qi3 since uh... something about gen1 giving the meaning that you are making the invitation specifically to go with the person, and yi4 qi3 meaning that you are going anyway?? something like that, or maybe it's the other way around, basically you would use either gen1 or yi4 qi3... can anyone shine some light on this?

Nothing wrong with 跟 and 一起 being used together. Did you misunderstand that Chinese person?

[turing2020_yahoo]

Here, gen1 is 'with', the same as he2. gen1 is widely used in spoken Chinese. Any Chinese who doesn't know much grammer will tell you 'gen1 wo3 yi4 qi3 chi1 wu3 fan4' is right.

Also, if you want to invite a girl or a lady to dinner, you'd better not ask 'ni3 xiang3 gen1 wo3 yi4 qi3 chi1 wu3 fan4 ma?'. This question is sure to embarrass her. Chinese, especially girls, don't like to let others know what they are thinking. If she wants to, she will be abashed to let you know. If not, she will find it embarrassing to say NO. It is better to ask '你有空跟我一起吃午饭吗ni3 you3 kong4 gen1 ...Do you have time...' If she doesn't want, she has got an excuse. In Chinese there is a word expressing this kind of excuse, ie 台阶tai2jie1, whose original meaning is 'flight of steps'. When getting along with Chinese, it is important to remember to give others a tai2jie1 to get off(给人台阶下）. Chinese think those who give them a tai2jie1 are easier to get along with.

[roddy]

Any Chinese who doesn't know much grammer will tell you 'gen1 wo3 yi4 qi3 chi1 wu3 fan4' is right.

So do you mean the Chinese who DO know grammar will tell you it's wrong, or that it's such a simple thing that the Chinese who DON'T know any will still know that it's right.

Chinese, especially girls, don't like to let others know what they are thinking.

You must meet some very demure girls, all the ones I know never shut up about what they're thinking. . .

Roddy

[chenpv]

You must meet some very demure girls, all the ones I know never shut up about what they're thinking. . .

Roddy, i just love the way you speak, because it always leaves enough uncovered meanings for me to discover...... Wondering if the 5 years' experiences in Beijing has shaped your way of thinking to some extent.......