Guest Pipas Posted December 29, 2005 at 10:42 AM Report Share Posted December 29, 2005 at 10:42 AM Hello, all! this word -"不时" makes me dizzy It means "sometimes", but I used to say "有时(候)". Is it a difference between them? In usage may be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenpv Posted December 29, 2005 at 02:30 PM Report Share Posted December 29, 2005 at 02:30 PM 不时: less than constantly but more than occasionally, it is always used as: 时不时 which has the same meaning. 有时(候): as you have mentioned, it means 'sometimes'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dongdong Posted December 29, 2005 at 09:13 PM Report Share Posted December 29, 2005 at 09:13 PM And i think 不时 somewhat implies the irregularity of an action. For example: 他说话的时候很紧张，不时会把纸上的句子念错。 which can imply that his mispronunciations happen quite much and unexpectedly. personal opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pipas Posted December 30, 2005 at 09:44 AM Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 at 09:44 AM Yeah, but aren't you confused by the structure of this word, guys? 不+时.. It seems to be kind of "unnatural", just like "按说". Probably originally it was "不合时" or "不定时", just like 按理说 --> 按照情理来说. How do they call such words in chinese? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakkaboy Posted December 30, 2005 at 11:14 AM Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 at 11:14 AM There are lots of funny things in Chinese. Take: 好容易 means the same as 好不容易, so sometimes you have to accept things as they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altair Posted December 30, 2005 at 12:07 PM Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 at 12:07 PM 不+时.. It seems to be kind of "unnatural", just like "按说". Probably originally it was "不合时" or "不定时", just like 按理说 --> 按照情理来说. I don't know whether this analysis is correct or not, but it is quite helpful, at least to me. Perhaps, the logic for 不时 was something like 有时="at times" and 不时="not just from time to time, but frequently." The meaning of a phrase like 没时 (which doesn't exist as far as I can find) would not seem right, since it might imply "never." 好容易, mentioned by Hakkaboy seems to represent the same phenomenon of omission. Compare this phenomenon with the English phrase: "The proof is in the pudding." Let me explain for those non-native English speakers for whom this phrase might be puzzling. From what I understand, the phrase is a shortened form of the saying "The proof of the pudding is in the eating." "Proof" in this case means "test," and the phrase implies something like: "You can tell how good a pudding is only by eating some of it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semantic nuance Posted December 30, 2005 at 03:18 PM Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 at 03:18 PM 有时="at times" and 不时="not just from time to time, but frequently." I agree with Altair. 不時 means 常常. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashiriKata Posted December 30, 2005 at 03:37 PM Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 at 03:37 PM I agree with Altair. 不時 means 常常.In addition, 不時 is a fairly bookish expression, more often seen than heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferno Posted December 30, 2005 at 07:18 PM Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 at 07:18 PM 不时: less than constantly but more than occasionally, it is always used as: 时不时 which has the same meaning. looks like there could be some ambiguity with 是不是 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pipas Posted December 30, 2005 at 08:13 PM Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 at 08:13 PM I'm not satisfied Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quest Posted December 30, 2005 at 10:35 PM Report Share Posted December 30, 2005 at 10:35 PM looks like there could be some ambiguity with 是不是 Different tones. I'm not satisfied According to my dictionary 《现代汉语词典》: 有时：sometimes 不时：1. 时时: 炼钢工人~察看炉火的颜色。(often) 2。随时；不是预定的时间：以备不时之需。(at random times, any time, many times) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrianlondon Posted December 31, 2005 at 12:52 AM Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 at 12:52 AM "shi bu shi" is usually sid so quick that there are no discernable tones. So I doubt you'd be able to tell the difference between 时不时and 是不是 except by context. In fact, until it was mentioned in this thread (admittedly I'm a beginner) I never even considered 时不时 as a possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiaocai Posted December 31, 2005 at 06:24 AM Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 at 06:24 AM "shi bu shi" is usually sid so quick that there are no discernable tones. So I doubt you'd be able to tell the difference between 时不时and 是不是 except by context. In fact, until it was mentioned in this thread (admittedly I'm a beginner) I never even considered 时不时 as a possibility. I think I can tell the diffenrence without the aid of context. It not very hard to distinguish 2nd tone from 4rd tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferno Posted December 31, 2005 at 07:32 AM Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 at 07:32 AM i know the tones are different but I have been listening to a lot of Mandarin TV and radio - i immediately recalled how the three syllable grouping "shi bu shi" was specificaly often said really fast in a kind of slur. I have just always assumed it was 是不是 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dongdong Posted December 31, 2005 at 09:04 AM Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 at 09:04 AM i know the tones are different but I have been listening to a lot of Mandarin TV and radio - i immediately recalled how the three syllable grouping "shi bu shi" was specificaly often said really fast in a kind of slur. I have just always assumed it was 是不是 The first syllable should always be distinguished, because if it's not, then it will be also difficult for the native ears to catch the meaning. Yeah, after the first syllable, you can speak the rest in a slur. For us it's in many cases enough to make out the whole word by hearing the first tone. In this case, just pay more attention to the first syllable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrianlondon Posted December 31, 2005 at 06:44 PM Report Share Posted December 31, 2005 at 06:44 PM Yes, it isn't hard to tell the difference between second and fourth tone but, as I said in my previous post, that isn't the issue. "shi bu shi" is said very fast; there are no tones when it's said like that. My boyfriend (admittedly Taiwanese rather than mainland Chinese) actually says "sibusi" again with no tones noticable. Not by me, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pipas Posted January 1, 2006 at 07:55 PM Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 at 07:55 PM Happy New Years! Nobody liked my idea about 不时="不合时" or "不定时" is just like 按说=按理说. Why? Some kind of a contracted-word form, no? Is it so impossible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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