Similarities between English and Chinese tones

[necroflux]

As I delve further into the Chinese language I'm starting to notice that tones have much more impact on speech in English than I previously thought. They have less to do with semantics than with Chinese, but they have a drastic effect on the interpretation of a sentence nonetheless. Take for example the following simple dialog:

"You know something? You smell!"

"You think I smell?? You smell!"

One could realistically apply the following Chinese tones to most of the words here:

"You1 know1 something1? You4 smell4!"

"You2 think5 I2 smell1?? You4 smell5!"

Obviously tones like these emphatic statements, but we are much more exposed to tones than most realize. This actually relates to a recent story I read about how a large percentage of text we send via IM and E-mail to others is misinterpreted as any kind of tonal clues are stripped from the language. It's certainly easy to see why that is.

And might I add that these are all "unofficial" tones that only the most experienced foreigners will ever be able to recognize, let alone use. At least the Chinese have tonal rules for how words should be spoken, saving the expression of emotional overtones for 啊, 啦, 吧, 嗎, etc. As far as I'm concerned, I'd much rather learn English as a "baby with nothing better to do" and move on to Chinese later.

[HashiriKata]

I think what you're talking about here is "intonation" rather than "tones", perhaps?

[necroflux]

Yeah you're right, intonation is a better word for English, but terminology aside I'm still surprised how much of it exists.

[realmayo]

SHOUTING (or just raising the voice on a word)

that's the easiest Chinese intonation I'm aware of -- I guess the easiest way for a Chinese speaker to emphasize something without introducing an erroneous run of fourth tones. and obviously something shared with possibly all languages.

by the way is it just me or do Chinese people like to say the word "China" with a long first tone on the "Chine" first syllable?

[Ferno]

yes i thought about this too, there is really a huge amount of subtle (or not so subtle!) information conveyed through these intonation patterns in English

imo that's how it should be - have sounds to make words and convey information and leave intonation for indicate other shades of meaning

[amego]

Haha anyway for Singlish I really think its tones and not intonation, and its the tones of mandarin. Here.

Why1 you3 always4 late4 one1? (Why are you always late?) Hint: Direct translation from mandarin. "为什么你整天迟到的？"， and yes, this is how we speak.

[Ferno]

why would Singaporeans incorporate Mandarin tonal paterns into their English... isn't Mandarin more of an artificial language in Singapore, taught in schools as part of a government push? I thought other dialects had deeper cultural roots there...

[gato]

That's a good one, amego. I'd thought, too, that Singlish sounds like a little like a Chinese dialect spoken with English words.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singlish

Singlish pronunciation, while built on a base of British English, is also heavily influenced by Chinese and Malay.

There is variation within Singlish, both geographically and ethnically. Chinese, Malays, Indians, Eurasians, and other ethnic groups in Singapore all have distinct accents.

[count_zero]

For a good example of this try saying: 'good for you'.

Now try again:

(It's healthy) good for you.

(Well done) good for you!

In the film 'Envy' The Jay Man hears that the protagonist has lost his job.

'Good for you! Good for you.' He says, meaning 'Well done! That will improve your life'.

[count_zero]

a: Would you like apples or oranges?

b: I don't mind; apples or oranges.

The second 'or' is like huozhe instead of haishi and you should be pronouncing it

'apples ORRRR oranges'

The tone is distinct and the emphasis huge.

[necroflux]

Hmm.. actually I personally wouldn't pronounce those two "ors" any differently at all. There is an emphasis on "apples" and "oranges" in the first sentence, where in the second sentence there is only an emphasis on "apples" and it isn't quite as pronounced. I'm sure there can't be any real explanation for that lol.

Your "good for you" example is a great one, though.

[chenpv]

"You know something? You smell!"

"You think I smell?? You smell!"

One could realistically apply the following Chinese tones to most of the words here:

"You1 know1 something1? You4 smell4!"

"You2 think5 I2 smell1?? You4 smell5!"

Why1 you3 always4 late4 one1?

(It's healthy) good for you.

(Well done) good for you!

Maybe a recording or something works better.

[atitarev]

yès! - statement

yés? - question

[amego]

why would Singaporeans incorporate Mandarin tonal paterns into their English... isn't Mandarin more of an artificial language in Singapore, taught in schools as part of a government push? I thought other dialects had deeper cultural roots there...

Well coz the younger generations speaks Mandarin and/or English coz the government discouraged the use of dialect, yes dialects had deeper roots but now its Mandarin and ITS NOT "an artificial language". For significant number of people here (like me), Mandarin is their mother tongue, and they are fluent in English and/or dialects as well.