semantic nuance Posted March 15, 2006 at 05:12 PM Report Share Posted March 15, 2006 at 05:12 PM Hehe! It beats me. I think the function of ㄋㄟ is like that of 喔, 啊, 咦, etc. It's the sound when we say it cute. My guess is that it is a variation of 不好意思呢! But I'm not sure. We just say it that way. It's a bit like 'ne' of 'des ne' in Japanese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipponman Posted March 15, 2006 at 06:24 PM Report Share Posted March 15, 2006 at 06:24 PM We just say it that way. It's a bit like 'ne' of 'des ne' in Japanese. Interesting, I hope hashirikata won't mind taking the focus away from this thread for a second but, how is it pronounced? I can't read zhu yin:oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semantic nuance Posted March 16, 2006 at 01:02 AM Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 at 01:02 AM the phonetic 'ㄋ' is pronouced 'n' as in 'n-an (nan2 難 difficult)', and 'ㄟ' ,'ei' as in 'hei (黑 black). so, combined together, ㄋㄟ is prounced 'nei'(sometimes the first tone, sometimes the fifth). You cannot find a character for ㄋㄟ in the dictionary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipponman Posted March 16, 2006 at 01:50 AM Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 at 01:50 AM Hmm, interesting nei1:mrgreen: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashiriKata Posted March 16, 2006 at 08:32 AM Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 at 08:32 AM 真不好意思ㄋㄟ. 我下次改進改進! 我會把其他的都留給別人去聽寫. 不是故意的! No need to apologize, SN! You've done great and without your contributions, I suspect that we may not be able to get all the 15 fables out. Anyway, you can still help us with correcting our output and give us the words that we don't manage to catch. Anyhow, I intend to get all of the fables output into text (even if it means I may have to do many of them myself! ). I've done No.7 last night and as expected, there's still some word (in red) I'm still not quite sure, could someone please check it out for me? 7. 杞人忧天 杞人是杞国的一个人，优天是担心天会掉下来。杞人忧天成语的来源是这样的：两千多年前，杞国有一个人，担子很小，什么都怕。他常常为一些事情来烦恼自己。有一天，他看着天空，忽然担心起来。他想，如果有一天，天掉下来了，怎么办呢？我们不是都要被压死了吗？他一看见人就说：你们要小心哪。如果天掉下来了，我们躲到哪去呀？我们一定[？死定？]了。怎么办呢？他的朋友看他那么烦恼的样子，就劝他说：放心吧，天不会掉下来的，大家都活得好好儿的。再说，就是天掉下来了，你一个人着急也没有用啊。你着急可以解决问题吗？他没听他朋友的话，每天着急得饭也吃不下，觉也睡不好，事也做不了，整天发愁，自言自语地说：要是天掉下来了怎么办？要是天掉下来了怎么办？ 后来，我们就用“杞人忧天”比喻没有必要的担忧，无用的着急。你有的时候也会杞人忧天吗？ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semantic nuance Posted March 16, 2006 at 09:51 AM Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 at 09:51 AM I was thinking if I deprived the chance of others to practice their listening comprehension by transcribing those chenyus. No problem. I'd be glad to help correct some words if I can. HarishiKata, I was thinking if these transcription can be translated into English for those beginners. Maybe not all of them. Maybe just some vocabularies. If this is possible, those who want to learn English and happen to answer questions or read stuff at this website can benefit from it. Maybe those English native speakers who eventually grasp the usage of meaning of each chenyu here can think of its English equivalent to each Chenyu here, if there's any. Another is that people can make sentences by using chenyu they learn here. If not posting here, you may post a new thread for people to practice to see if they totally understand the usage. Just a suggestion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashiriKata Posted March 16, 2006 at 10:35 AM Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 at 10:35 AM Hi semantic nuance, I think it's a great idea to have a thread for the vocab & translations of the fables. I didn't do it initially because my first objective is listening practice, and translation into English is also not my strong point. Even so, I did mention at the beginning of this thread that if anyone asks about the vocab or grammar, I'd be happy to provide any help I can (instead of making it an integral part of the listening practice). So, do feel free to start a thread for the translation of the output we've got. Let's also hope that many will contribute to this new thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semantic nuance Posted March 16, 2006 at 04:28 PM Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 at 04:28 PM 两千多年前，杞国有一个人，担子很小，什么都怕。 两千多年前，杞国有一个人，膽子很小，什么都怕。 如果天掉下来了，我们躲到哪去呀？我们一定[？死定？]了。 如果天掉下来了，我们躲到哪去呀？我们一定死定了。 Yes, you're correct. This 杞人憂天 reminds me of another similar chenyu--吳牛喘月, which means to be frightened or fear something too much. Hope it helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashiriKata Posted March 16, 2006 at 08:17 PM Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2006 at 08:17 PM Many thanks, semantic nuance! I'm so pleased that I've got it almost perfect (the 担子/ 膽子 mix-up could be blamed on Bill Gates for not knowing Chinese ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashiriKata Posted March 18, 2006 at 10:07 PM Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 at 10:07 PM As I have a little more time at the weekend, I've managed to listen & transcribe 3 more fables. I hope there're not many mistakes in them but you can make it your listening exercise by trying to spot my mistakes . I hope you enjoy the fables also! 9. 东施效颦 东施是一个女人的名字，效颦是模仿别人的意思。 在春秋末年越国的一个村子里，住着两个女人。一个叫西施，一个叫东施。西施长得非常漂亮，是一个美人。每次她在街上走的时候，都会引起很多人的注意，大家都会停下来欣赏她。有一天，西施在街上走的时候，忽然心痛病发作了，他就用手按着胸口，皱着眉头。西施皱着眉头的样子比平时更好看了。东施长得很丑，她很羡慕西施，她常常模仿西施的样子。东施看见西施皱着眉头的样子真美，她也模仿西施的样子了。用手按着胸口，皱着眉头。没想到他这样做就变得更丑了。村子里的人看见的东施模仿西施的样子那么丑，连看也不愿多看她一眼，都远远得躲开了。 后来大家就把那些不知道人家的优点在哪里，也不管自己的条件怎么样，就盲目地模仿别人叫做东西效颦。 12. 走马看花 走马是人骑着马跑的意思。看花并不是真地看花。这里花是指女人的意思。走马看花就是一个人骑着吗，很快地看一个女人的意思。 从前，有一个叫贵良的人。因为他的腿有点儿瘸，一直找不到一个漂亮的女人做他的妻子了。他有点儿着急，就请他的朋友华汉帮忙给他介绍一个。华汉正好认识一个叫叶青的姑娘。这个姑娘因为鼻子有点儿歪，也一直找不到好的对象。华汉想：如果我给他们两个人介绍介绍，不是很好吗？可是他又一想：如果他们知道彼此的缺点，就很难成功了。华汉左思右想，终于想出来一个好主意。他叫贵良骑着吗，从叶青的门前经过看看叶青。同时，他叫叶青那天站在门口儿手里拿了一束化遮着鼻子，也看看贵良是什么样的人。这样，他们两个人就谁也看不出来谁的缺点了。那天，贵良在马上看见拿花的叶青，非常喜欢，决定要娶她。叶青看见骑在马上的贵良很帅，也愿意嫁给贵良。结婚的那天晚上，新郎掀起了新娘的盖头，看见了新娘的歪鼻子，吓了一跳。这时，新娘也发现贵良是个瘸子，也大吃一惊。 现在我们就用走马看花来比喻观察事物不仔细，或是马马虎虎只看外表。 15. 天花乱坠 天花是天上的花，乱坠是纷纷掉下来的意思。天花乱坠这个成语的来源跟佛教有关系。你们都知道佛教是在印度开始的，东汉初年传到了中国。到南北朝的时候已经非常盛行了。从皇帝到老百姓都信佛教。佛教徒为了使民众相信佛经就常编造了许多神话故事讲给民众听来感动他们。其中有一个神话说：有一个叫云光的法师，讲经讲得特别动听。他讲得到感动了上天，所以就有各色各样的香花从天上降下来，在空中飞舞。天花乱坠就是形容这个云光很会讲佛经。后来，佛教分成了很多宗派，禅宗这个派对后世的影响最深。禅宗的道原和尚提倡对佛法的真正领会，反对只是说得好听。他跟教徒说：如果不讲佛教的真正意义，把佛教说得天花乱坠，那就离佛教太远了，也就是邪说了。所以后来又用天花乱坠这个成语形容一个人话说得好听，但是有时候说的话不太可靠。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semantic nuance Posted March 19, 2006 at 01:39 AM Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 at 01:39 AM Well done!!! only very very minute mistakes. 9. 东施效颦 效颦是模仿别人的意思。 What I heard is 模範 from the narrator. However, I think she tried to say 模仿 instead of 模範, though her pronunciation is 模範. 模範 can only be used as noun . See here. 村子里的人看见的东施模仿西施的样子那么丑村子里的人看见了东施模仿西施的样子那么丑就盲目地模仿别人叫做东西效颦。就盲目地模仿别人叫做东施效颦。12. 走马看花 走马看花就是一个人骑着吗走马看花就是一个人骑着馬如果他们知道彼此的缺点如果他们知道了彼此的缺点华汉左思右想，终于想出来一个好主意。华汉左思右想，终于想出来了一个好主意。同时，他叫叶青那天站在门口儿手里拿了一束化遮着鼻子，同时，他叫叶青那天站在门口儿手里拿了一束花遮着鼻子，15. 天花乱坠 所以就有各色各样的香花从天上降下来，在空中飞舞。所以就有各色各样的香花兒从天上降下来，在空中飞舞。禅宗这个派对后世的影响最深。禅宗这一派对后世的影响最深。那就离佛教太远了，那就离佛法太远了，Hope it helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semantic nuance Posted March 19, 2006 at 05:51 AM Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 at 05:51 AM 十四 一箭雙雕 雕是一種大鳥. 這個成語的意思是說一個人很有本事, 用一隻箭同時可以射下來兩隻大鳥. 在中國南北朝的時候, 有一個人姓張*叫孫晟, 他雖然書讀得不多, 但是武藝高強, 尤其會射箭. 皇帝派他出使突厥國.突厥的國王攝圖知道長孫晟的本領很好, 非常賞識他, 常邀他ㄧ起去騎馬打獵. 有一天, 他們又率領大隊人馬去打獵. 他們到了森林以後, 沒看見有什麼野獸, 很失望. 正在這時候, 忽然聽見天空上ㄧ陣雕叫的聲音, 攝圖抬頭ㄧ看, 原來是兩隻大雕在搶一塊肉吃. 攝圖很高興就給長孫晟兩枝箭叫他射雕. 長孫晟拿起箭, 咻的一聲, 兩隻雕就掉下來了. 大家都齊聲叫好,說: 長孫晟真了不起, ㄧ枝箭ㄧ次能射下來兩隻雕. 因為這個故事,後代就用一箭雙雕或者ㄧ舉兩得形容做一件事可以達到兩個目的. PS :張* I think it's narrator's oral mistake, because in the latter part, she narrated the person as 長孫晟. You may refer to the story here. Hope it helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashiriKata Posted March 19, 2006 at 09:30 AM Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 at 09:30 AM Thanks for the corrections, SN! With the fable you transcribed, I think you're right, the name should be 長 instead of 張. (I also think that as a double surname, 長孫 should be read as Zhang3sun1 instead of the narrator's Chang2sun1. How would you say this name 長孫 in real life ?). By the way, I noticed that you used both 隻and 枝 as measurewords for 箭. It should only be 枝 and not 隻, am I right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semantic nuance Posted March 19, 2006 at 11:26 AM Report Share Posted March 19, 2006 at 11:26 AM 不用客氣, HarishiKata. 用一隻箭同時可以射下來兩隻大鳥.用一枝箭同時可以射下來兩隻大鳥. Sorry, my typing mistake. As for 長孫, you're right, it's a double surname, and it's pronounced as Zhang3sun1 . Also, these two characters are a set used to mean the eldest grandson. Hope it helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipponman Posted March 21, 2006 at 01:53 AM Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 at 01:53 AM Okay, I've been talking about doin this for a while now, hopefully no ones done this one before, this is about contradicting yourself basically, saying your shield is the strongest in the world, while also saying your spear can pierce everything. blah blah blah, as usual, the areas that have no characters where places where I heard tones (or thought I heard) but couldn't find any characters for, "?( )" is a function for what is in the parenthesis to show that I am just guessing. As always any and all corrections are encouraged and welcome though I think the characters without the special markings I've indicated are pretty solid. Enough chit chat, read on! 自相矛盾 矛跟盾都是bu4shi4hou4大丈運動武器。自相矛盾這個成語是怎麼來的呢﹖'(丈國) 時代有一天在一個熱鬧是﹖(場力)一個人賣矛也賣盾。他﹖(四誇)他的矛跟盾如何 如何好﹐他現拿起他的盾說﹕我所的這個盾是世界上最結實的盾。任何jian4wei2 的東西都﹖(死不傳)他。他等(sounds like 1st tone)了bang4tian1,看沒有人要買 他的盾。他就把盾仿傚﹐拿起來他的毛說我作的是世界最feng1 yi4 的矛 不管什麼樣的盾﹐﹖﹖﹖他說完了以後﹐一個人﹖﹖他你說你的矛是世界上最風衣 的矛。可以刺穿任何的盾。你的盾是世界上最結實的盾。什麼矛都刺穿他。那麼請 問要是用你的這個矛 ﹐刺你的這個盾和有結果吶。那個人回答不出來啦。 很不好意思。拿起他的矛和盾﹐走??啦。現在就用自相矛盾這個成語。﹖﹖一個人﹐ 說的話﹐。。。 P.s. I kinda peetered off at the end and didn't get the last phrase she said, for some reason this is kinda taxing for me. But the good news is I can hear tones more clearly these days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semantic nuance Posted March 21, 2006 at 03:13 AM Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 at 03:13 AM 矛跟盾都是bu4shi4hou4大丈運動武器。自相矛盾這個成語是怎麼來的呢﹖'(丈國) 時代有一天在一個熱鬧是﹖(場力)一個人賣矛也賣盾。他﹖(四誇)他的矛跟盾如何 如何好﹐他現拿起他的盾說﹕我所的這個盾是世界上最結實的盾。任何jian4wei2 的東西都﹖(死不傳)他。他等(sounds like 1st tone)了bang4tian1,看沒有人要買 他的盾。他就把盾仿傚﹐拿起來他的毛說我作的是世界最feng1 yi4 的矛 不管什麼樣的盾﹐﹖﹖﹖他說完了以後﹐一個人﹖﹖他你說你的矛是世界上最風衣 的矛。可以刺穿任何的盾。你的盾是世界上最結實的盾。什麼矛都刺穿他。那麼請 問要是用你的這個矛刺你的這個盾和有結果吶。那個人回答不出來啦。 很不好意思。拿起他的矛和盾﹐走??啦。現在就用自相矛盾這個成語。﹖﹖一個人說的話﹐。。。 矛跟盾都是古時候打仗用的武器。自相矛盾這個成語是怎麼來的呢﹖戰國時代,有一天,在一個熱鬧的市場裡一個人賣矛也賣盾。他自誇他的矛跟盾如何如何好﹐他先拿起他的盾說﹕我做的這個盾是世界上最結實的盾。任何尖銳的東西都刺不穿它。他等了半天,看沒有人要買他的盾,他就把盾放下﹐拿起來他的矛說:我作的矛是世界上最鋒利的矛.不管什麼樣的盾﹐ㄧ刺就可以刺穿。他說完了以後﹐一個人問他:你說你的矛是世界上最鋒利的矛。可以刺穿任何的盾。你的盾是世界上最結實的盾。什麼矛都刺不穿他。那麼,請問要是用你的這個矛 ﹐刺你的這個盾會有什麼結果呢?那個人回答不出來了, 很不好意思,拿起他的矛和盾﹐走開了。現在我們就用自相矛盾這個成語比喻一個人說的話跟做的事前後牴觸。 Hope it helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bomaci Posted March 21, 2006 at 10:38 AM Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 at 10:38 AM Is my ears playing tricks on me or does the speaker pronounce 锋利 as feng2 li4 the first time she says it? To me it sounds like 我做的矛是世界上最feng2li4的矛. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semantic nuance Posted March 21, 2006 at 12:11 PM Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 at 12:11 PM Your ears are absolutely sound. She does pronounce feng2li4 in the first part. But you know sometimes when we speak or read out, we'll mispronounce. Sometimes when I speak very fast, I will say 我素 instead of 我是, maybe the changing of pitch or into different character is affected by my Taiwanese or by the character following 是. The changing of the pronunciation here may be due to the narrator's nerveousness or her swallowing saliva at the wrong time. Back to the topic, 鋒利feng1li4 is correct. Hope it helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipponman Posted March 21, 2006 at 12:33 PM Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 at 12:33 PM Is my ears playing tricks on me or does the speaker pronounce 锋利 as feng2 li4 the first time she says it? To me it sounds like 我做的矛是世界上最feng2li4的矛. I noticed that too (to my utter amazement) and I kept searching for an appropriate feng2li4, but couldn't find one. 他自誇他的矛 For some reason 自 sounded like si4 to me. 不管什麼樣的盾 This structure makes sense, but I wonder, can I replace yang4 here with zhong3 (type, kind)? Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semantic nuance Posted March 21, 2006 at 12:44 PM Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 at 12:44 PM For some reason 自 sounded like si4 to me. She did pronounce zi4 for sure.can I replace yang4 here with zhong3 (type' date=' kind)? Just curious.[/quote'] yes, you can. Here in this case 什麼樣-- what kind--=什麼種(類) Hope it helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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