xuechengfeng Posted March 21, 2006 at 05:54 AM Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 at 05:54 AM I realize I should probably know this studying this language for a couple years now, but I forget. . . How would I say something like "I studied Chinese three years ago (but I no longer do)." Do you just use the time frame + 以前? I only recall using 以前 as the word "before," which might not necessarily be on par with "ago." Is there a better word for "ago?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashiriKata Posted March 21, 2006 at 07:02 AM Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 at 07:02 AM You're right, any of the following will give you the desired effect: + 前/ + 以前/ + 之前 Don't you do Chinese any longer? I remember you were planning for a China's trip some time ago, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quest Posted March 21, 2006 at 11:42 AM Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 at 11:42 AM Use 前+过 我三年前学过中文。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrianlondon Posted March 21, 2006 at 01:32 PM Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 at 01:32 PM Using English, can you explain how that differs from using 了instead of 过? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xuechengfeng Posted March 22, 2006 at 04:12 AM Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 at 04:12 AM Have I totally missed the quote button? Anyways, no, no, I am still doing Chinese, in my third year and hopefully going to Qingdao this summer. I guess my practice sentence was a little misleading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qi_liu Posted March 23, 2006 at 12:23 PM Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 at 12:23 PM can't find quote button:wall , but still wanna discuss "Using English, can you explain how that differs from using 了instead of 过?" with #4 Let's have a look at these two sentences: 1. 小明读了《三国演义》。 2. 小明读过《三国演义》。 The first one can be translated like: "Xiao Ming has read 'San Guo'"; while the second one can be : "Xiao Ming read 'San Guo'". Well... I've also got a little confusion:shock: ... anyone helps us?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-F-J Posted March 23, 2006 at 02:06 PM Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 at 02:06 PM For some reason I get the feeling 了 means you did it, while 过 means you've done it before. It gives a different feeling of time. 了 is more close to the present than 过. This is just my personal feeling though. Not sure if it's completely correct. Any back up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrianlondon Posted March 23, 2006 at 02:13 PM Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 at 02:13 PM I, being a learner who is using Practical Chinese Reader that describes it as such, take "guo" to mean a "whole experience". So, if you had learnt chinese but weren't planning on learning any more, then use "guo". In other words "I learnt Chinese three years ago (and that's it; I'm not going to bother with it any more)" Whereas using "le" just means that you studied chinese three years ago. So, to translate the opening post I'd use "le" as the person is going to continue learning Chinese at some point in the future. Wow, it made sense in my head but it's hard to express in words Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-F-J Posted March 23, 2006 at 02:36 PM Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 at 02:36 PM You use 过 in saying you've gone to China three years ago. You use 了 to mean you went to China three years ago (and are still there). This has a different meaning using 过 and 了 to say you studied Chinese three years ago. It sounds to me like a time issue. I wouldn't use 了 in this case, and instead use 过 as suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrianlondon Posted March 23, 2006 at 03:19 PM Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 at 03:19 PM (You use 过 in saying you've gone to China three years ago. You use 了 to mean you went to China three years ago (and are still there). Replace "China" with "supermarket" and it doesn't work :-) The 过 means an experience. So if you were asked "How long ago was it you went to China?" you'd use 了 I think, even if you weren't still there. If you were describing some trip or holiday there as a one off, you'd use 过. However, using my logic that means you would use 了 if you were asked "When was the first time you went to China?" but 过 if you were asked "Have you ever been to China?". Hmm. I'm confusing myself ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-F-J Posted March 23, 2006 at 05:04 PM Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 at 05:04 PM Yeah, that's what I'm saying: 我三年前学过中文。= I have studied Chinese three years ago (but no longer do). Just as the English meaning requested. 我三年前学了中文。= I studied Chinese three years ago (and may have started again). Not the same meaning. Try translating these sentences into Chinese and see which word you use: I studied Chinese three years ago, but don't anymore. I studied Chinese three years ago, and recently took it up again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrianlondon Posted March 23, 2006 at 05:16 PM Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 at 05:16 PM studied Chinese three years ago (and may have started again). What about ... " studied Chinese three years ago (and will start again soon)"? Which I think is what's relevant here, as the original poster is going to go to China to study. Hmm. I'll just use "le" or "guo" as I feel fit, I think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-F-J Posted March 23, 2006 at 05:24 PM Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 at 05:24 PM (You use 过 in saying you've gone to China three years ago. You use 了 to mean you went to China three years ago (and are still there).Replace "China" with "supermarket" and it doesn't work :-) Using 过 would be asking if you've ever been to the supermarket, just like China. Using 了 would be asking if you went to the supermarket, just like China. Adding context will show whether you are still there or have returned. The 过 means an experience. So if you were asked "How long ago was it you went to China?" you'd use 了 I think, even if you weren't still there. Yes because you aren't asking "how long ago was it you have ever went to China". It doesn't even make sense in English. However, using my logic that means you would use 了 if you were asked "When was the first time you went to China?" but 过 if you were asked "Have you ever been to China?". Right. studied Chinese three years ago (and may have started again). What about ... " studied Chinese three years ago (and will start again soon)"? Which I think is what's relevant here, as the original poster is going to go to China to study. Same thing. I mean may have started by the time of speaking that sentence. May start again soon would be the same. I think using 了 and 过 would have two different meanings. Someone else can explain it better or correct it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashiriKata Posted March 23, 2006 at 08:09 PM Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 at 08:09 PM Dearest L-F-J and adrianlondon, Here's some food for your thought: 你吃过北京烤鸭了吗？ What is happening when both 过 and了 occur together? Yours sincerely , HK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-F-J Posted March 23, 2006 at 09:27 PM Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 at 09:27 PM 过= experience action marker 了= completed action marker To use 过 alone in this sentence it would ask if you have ever eaten Beijing roast duck before. To use 了 alone in this sentence it would ask if you ate the Beijing roast duck, perhaps at the restaurant early that night. To use them both together it would ask... something. In fact I haven't heard it like this before. I learned they don't go together, such as in: 我去过中国。= I've been to China before. 我去了中国。= I went to China, (and am still there). 我去过中国了。= Incorrect grammar. What's the difference between this and 我吃过北京烤鸭了？ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashiriKata Posted March 23, 2006 at 10:35 PM Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 at 10:35 PM To use 过 alone in this sentence it would ask if you have ever eaten Beijing roast duck before.To use 了 alone in this sentence it would ask if you ate the Beijing roast duck, perhaps at the restaurant early that night. To use them both together it would ask... something. In fact I haven't heard it like this before. I learned they don't go together You've got very close there, but yes, 过 and 了 do go together. Here are some more as evidence :这课我们学过了。 你吃过饭了吗？ 这份我已经看过了，你拿去看吧！ I hope someone may be able to explain it better than I can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L-F-J Posted March 24, 2006 at 01:42 AM Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 at 01:42 AM 过 alone is an experienced action. Have you done this lesson before? 了 alone is a completed action. Did you do this lesson? So when it's used together it shows an experienced action completed? Have you done this lesson and completed it? Heck, I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gougou Posted March 24, 2006 at 02:07 AM Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 at 02:07 AM I think in the example sentences HK gave, the 过 used is a different one. It does not indicate past experience, but completing an action from start to finish. 你吃过饭了吗？ hardly means "Have you ever eaten?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrianlondon Posted March 24, 2006 at 11:31 AM Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 at 11:31 AM I wish I hadn't asked now But yeah, the stuff about "guo" being a whole process also makes sense. I'll ask about 遍 and 次 next :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashiriKata Posted March 24, 2006 at 02:21 PM Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 at 02:21 PM I'll ask about 遍 and 次 next :-) What about 遍 and 次 that you want to ask ?? :mrgreen: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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