ord100 Posted April 19, 2006 at 12:07 AM Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 at 12:07 AM I live in the USA which is drifting towards a totalitarian imperialistic state. I do not like it but it's where I am due to fate. I am thinking of leaving because I am so sick of the government. BUT... The laowai china residents have CHOSEN to live in a Communist/Fascist Country. How do you feel about this? Would you have stayed in Germany in 1936? Do you care about human rights? The CCP is even worse than the american Rupublican party (that says a lot) Do you think your status/role there supports the status quo or a change to something better? Do you care? Have you read "Nine Commentaries on the Communist Party" http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1932674160/sr=8-1/qid=1145404988/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-8621578-9426405?%5Fencoding=UTF8 Do you Like Living in a Communist/Fascist Country? This thread may generate some interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owshawng Posted April 19, 2006 at 12:45 AM Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 at 12:45 AM Americans are finally waking up to what their government is doing to the Consitution. They can actually do something about it in the next elections. Chinese don't have that option. Don't really understand why Laowai would want to try to permanently live in China. It might be fun for a few years, but I doubt quality of life can compare to the West, Taiwan, Singapore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gato Posted April 19, 2006 at 01:02 AM Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 at 01:02 AM It's no 1936 Germany, though, nor Italy. It's highly unlikely that your next door neigbhor will be snatched away in the middle of the night, or any other time in the day. While the mass media is not free and multi-party elections aren't about to happen any time soon, there is a good amount of freedom at the personal level, especially if you have some money. The cost of living is low compared to more developed countries. Even on a English teacher's salary, one can live very comfortably. That seems to be tempting to many foreigner. There are a good number of folks in the over-50 age range teaching English here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geraldc Posted April 19, 2006 at 01:15 AM Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 at 01:15 AM If not now, when would have been a better time to live in China? There's no war or famine. The country isn't divided (with the exception of Taiwan). The rulers are Chinese, the economy is growing and China is trading with the rest of the world. Your clothes or haircut aren't governed by imperial edict or govt decree. You can only have one child, but your wife no longer dies in childbirth and your child generally makes it to adulthood. My relatives whinge and moan about things, but they admit, their lives have never been better. When would it have been a better time to live in the US? The 1950s? That was the height of McCarthyism. '60s and '70s Vietnam war and the Oil Crisis. '80s Reagonomics? If the choice was mine, I'd pick the '80s as I liked the TV and the pop music BTW just what changes are being made to the US constitution? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted April 19, 2006 at 01:35 AM Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 at 01:35 AM Do you Like Living in a Communist/Fascist Country? Read this, and then come back with a more sensible question. Describing China as communist or fascist attempts to say 'China now = China decades ago', or 'China now = 1930s Germany', which indicates either an ignorance of or a willful disregard for reality. I am thinking of leaving because I am so sick of the government. And if you listen closely my friends, you will hear a tiny thud as another piece of democracy dies and hits the floor . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gougou Posted April 19, 2006 at 06:34 AM Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 at 06:34 AM Would you have stayed in Germany in 1936?Yes!If your playing football and your team is losing, do you beg to be substituted? Leaving is no answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wushijiao Posted April 19, 2006 at 06:48 AM Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 at 06:48 AM Do you think your status/role there supports the status quo or a change to something better? Do you care? I think I’ve come into contact with thousands of Chinese students, of which some will go on to have positions of power in the future. I strongly doubt that I’ve ever taught the next generation’s Hu Jintao, but I’ve certainly taught many people who will be influential in their communities and businesses, and will necessarily influence whether China will have the civil society needed to form a better government. In the big scheme of things, a lone individual’s determination to boycott a country deemed evil, in solidarity with the oppressed masses, is probably as inconsequential as an individuals efforts to do good by positively changing the system from within. Nonetheless, I think it’s more useful to choose the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mind_wander Posted April 19, 2006 at 12:24 PM Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 at 12:24 PM ord100, This is a very good question, I also living in the USA, but wait until 10 years later and see, if the USA has changed or not. Yes, I think it good to stay in China for some of the years, however it is better to stay in the USA because alot of freedom rights(abiding the law). In addition, I do like to live a country where both sides can respect each other, but you see the gift being a US citizen has alot of things people take for granted. Who knows after 10+ years, there would be more people migrating into the US homeland, not refering to Mexicans (no offense attended). For example, more Asians, Europeans, etc. There are still alot of people have the American dream and want to come over here because either their government has too much control over them or either to weak. The question for you is have you ever thought about this through clearly? Since, the USA is the youngest country besides the other 300+ years old country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ord100 Posted April 21, 2006 at 01:29 AM Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 at 01:29 AM My question was "loaded" and biased. Sorry Roddy. Thanks for link. As an individual, I cannot change anything (I live in Chicago which votes for Democratic party candidates - we did not elect Bush) I am pissed off these days at both the American and Chinese governments. Especially the American government because I live here. Americans are losing their freedoms as chinese are gaining theirs. Ironic isn't it. The US "war on terrorism" is leading to widespread wiretaps, police surveillance, internet monitoring, and finance monitoring that is targetting all americans. But, I was trying to evaluate China & Japan as places to "escape to", and was thinking that the respect for individual rights/democracy might be the most important factor for me because I dislike governments in general and totalitarian governments in particular. Again, I apologize for "loaded" and biased posts which tend to occur after returning from pub. Roddy: Beers on me in Beijing next time, ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted April 21, 2006 at 02:40 AM Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 at 02:40 AM As an individual, I cannot change anything Just move anywhere then, it won't make any difference . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrinkDrankDrunk Posted April 21, 2006 at 02:42 AM Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 at 02:42 AM Yeah Illinois isn't exactly a beacon for democracy lately. George Ryan(our ex-governor) recently was convicted on all 18 counts of corruption. I have a love-hate relationship with Daley(Millenium park, albeit very beautiful i.e. cloud gate, was $350 million overbudget and four years late), and Rod Blagojevich isn't doing much better. *Sigh* Obama for 2012! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artofwar Posted April 21, 2006 at 11:46 AM Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 at 11:46 AM I can see you lack in understanding of China, either its present or past. A government demonizes another country for political reasons, in Mao Zedong era, most Chinese believed that 90% of American people live in a hard life without dignity while the small part of the rest, or the so-called gerentocratics, have so much privileges around the country. Personally I respect chairman Mao but I have to admit what he was doing is wrong on this aspect. Unfortunately seems what your government's doing now is just the same as what CCP did 40+years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhchao Posted April 21, 2006 at 05:12 PM Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 at 05:12 PM I am not sure if China can really be called "communist". More like authoritarian capitalism, like KMT in Taiwan before the lifting of martial law in 1987. PRC is communist in name only. I think it is fair to say that CCP stands for "Chinese Capitalist Party" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geraldc Posted April 21, 2006 at 05:39 PM Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 at 05:39 PM In what way is the US becoming a more totalitarian country? Don't you have the constitution to protect your rights etc. By moving to a country where you're not eligible for a vote, you're shooting yourself in the foot. Protesting about the erosion of your rights by leaving the country and effectively disenfranchising yourself is a curious option. I thought Chicago was famous for being corrupt, when Kennedy beat Nixon in 1960, there were reports that Richard Daley arranged for the dead to vote that night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlomker Posted April 21, 2006 at 06:07 PM Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 at 06:07 PM The US "war on terrorism" is leading to widespread wiretaps, police surveillance, internet monitoring, and finance monitoring that is targetting all americans. You talk like a libertarian and not a Democrat. A stronger intelligence community is here to stay--it was shortsighted by both parties to not keep a closer tab on subversives. If you aren't guilty of anything they why worry about surveillance? I'd be more concerned about censorship and false prosecutions--neither of which has occured or the Patriot Act wouldn't have been renewed (by a wide bipartisan vote at that). I tend to hang out with some 'fringe' people and the only ones that get really bent out of shape are the drug users (and other law breakers). Too bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ord100 Posted April 22, 2006 at 10:08 PM Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 at 10:08 PM The laowai china residents have CHOSEN to live in a Communist/Fascist Country. How do you feel about this? Do you think your status/role there supports the status quo or a change to something better? Do you care? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imron Posted April 23, 2006 at 12:21 AM Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 at 12:21 AM The laowai china residents have CHOSEN to live in a Communist/Fascist Country. How do you feel about this? Do you think your status/role there supports the status quo or a change to something better? Do you care? Probably the reason no-one answered this, is because the reality of modern day China is that it's not Communist (except in name), and although if you go by a strict definition you can find examples to say China is a fascist country, in most peoples lives there is a high degree of personal freedom and so it doesn't really compare to extreme examples of fascism that existed in other countries (and indeed even in China) at various times in history. The problem with your questions is that they assume something about China that isn't really the case, but to try and answer your questions: 1) I chose to live in China because I'm interested in the Chinese language and certain aspects of Chinese culture. Communism/Fascism never played a part in my decision to come here, and it wouldn't play a part in my decision to leave, as it's not something I really encounter in my daily life. 2) I'm sure my role here has an effect on the people who I interact with on a regular basis, but once again, any change I might bring about has nothing to do with Communism or Fascism (which I don't really encounter), but rather would be related to changing people's prejudices and misconceptions about westerners (which I encounter quite regularly). However this is not something I would consider that I actively do, but is something that happens merely because the people I interact with are being exposed to a real-life westerner who they can communicate with, rather than just images and stories from T.V and books. 3) China is in the process of improving and changing into something better. It's been doing that for the last 20-30 years and it's not the Communist/Fascist country that you might imagine it to be. Of course I care about the changes happening here but the things that are changing/that I would like to see changed have nothing to do with Communism or Fascism but rather things like when are they going to do something about the pollution, when are they going to do something about the rampant corruption, when are they going to address the problems created by the widening gap between the rich/poor etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ange9s Posted April 23, 2006 at 12:34 AM Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 at 12:34 AM If you spend any time at all in China you'll notice there's not exactly a gestapo breathing down your neck, and you see examples of capitalism everywhere. Just because a system labels itself Communist doesn't mean it operates under a pure communist program. The US calls it's system capitalism, but the amount of deregulatory and anti-competetive legislation that has passed in recent years wouldn't exactly make it a place John Galt would want to live. I'd say China's about as communist as the US is capitalist. I would like to arrange to be buried in Chicago, though, so I can keep on voting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celso Pin Posted April 23, 2006 at 03:36 AM Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 at 03:36 AM A stronger intelligence community is here to stay--it was shortsighted by both parties to not keep a closer tab on subversives. If you aren't guilty of anything they why worry about surveillance? I'd be more concerned about censorship and false prosecutions I grew up under a military dictatorship... thats exactly the stupid (sorry, no offense, but i know what i am talking about) way of thinking that supports totalitarism... under the military government in my country, subversive were people asking for democracy... freedom of speech... and things like that! If you aren't guilty of anything they why worry about surveillance? because they will use this surveillance to blackmail you, harass you or even worst... remember macharty... hoover... I'd be more concerned about censorship and false prosecutions what about false elections results? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.stinky Posted April 23, 2006 at 04:05 AM Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 at 04:05 AM communist? fascist? you really have to stop watching Fox news exclusively!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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