Where to go from Pimsleur?

[runehh]

After a slow start I have now almost finished Pimsleur 1,2 and 3. So where to go from here? I have bought several different textbooks and some of them are ok, but I dread the day I run out of Pimsleur lessons, and will have to rely on books alone. Maybe I am stupid or lazy (probably both) but I find it very difficult to learn from the books, now that I am used to the CD's.

Does anybody know of any Pimsleur style CD's or tapes that might be helpful? Or have any suggestions as to how I can make the transition to books?

[kudra]

I don't know at what level Pimsleur stops.

2 things you might check:

1. general texts

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/8091-texts-used-in-us-university-programs

2. Just see if you can understand the audio of lesson 1 of David and Helen

http://classes.yale.edu/chns130/Listening/index.html

Presumably if lesson 1 is understandable, then you are at 2nd year US univ. level.

Then at least there are many 10's of hrs of D+H audio.

[anticks]

Congrats on finishing all 3. How do you find your conversational skills are at the moment? and your listening?

Ive been wanting to find out what kind of level people are at after all 3 pimsleur courses as im almost done with Level 1. My girl (who is chinese) said, after listning to a few of conversational parts of various units in Mandarin III, that it sounds quite good and if i get to that level i should be able to talk and understand quite a bit of day to day conversation.

My plan after Pimsleur is to look more at Rosetta Stone and Chinesepod.com for topics on different things and using familiar words in different situations. I think there will be a few things that they cover that Pimsleur does not. Right now im also about to start a short course. Im taking a 10 week, 30 hour evening course teaching Mandarin with a focus on communication. It wasnt too hard for find out about this. Alot of local schools here get hired out by teachers who teach evening classes in all sorts of things. Maybe you could look into it. Im not sure how much a 30 hour course would actually help? Anyone had any experience in short courses?

Im planning to goto China at the end of 2007/Start of 2008. So that gives me over a year and a half to study Mandarin.

[incuria]

It seems like we are looking at the same mandarin courses. Some just starting out while others at the end of a particular course.

Would it be possible to put up a post of the more common commercially available ones. Someone who has fluency and had exposure to the various types of formats (book/cd,software, podcasts etc) and rank them somehow in terms of beginner/intermediate/advanced.

There is already an extensive posting on different textbooks used at University. Non academic types (or those not yet interested in learning the written script) such as myself are relying upon straight off the shelf book/audio courses.

It would be helpful to have an idea what study materials would flow from one level to the next, so we could get an idea and direction to head in to expand our level of knowledge or stay in one place for the time being to revise.

No Course would cover everything so it is natural to ask the question "what next".

I'm just starting with Plimsleur 1 but supplement with Chinesepod.com (in the newbies section) as I find the podcasts to be humerous and fun. A break from the repetition but also good to hear a different set of voices.

[kudra]

Just to comment on ...

or those not yet interested in learning the written script...

The somewhat old Spoken Standard Chinese 1,2 series by Huang and Stimson was all pinyin. It has a companion series of texts -- Written Standard Chinese 1-4. Apparently you can buy tapes for them all but they are pricey. (There was a draft of Spoken vol 3, but it never got published. )( home made mp3 may be available on the web somewhere at some point.)

It seems like at some point, you will want the "academic" treatment to get a systematic presentation of grammar and patterns. I thought this was a very strong point about the Spoken Standard Chinese 1-2 series.

I guess what you need is people to chime in, who've had success getting to mid intermediate level, for example, doing self study using off the shelf audio/cd products. My guess, based on nothing but my experiential bias toward the "academic" treatment, is that they are a rare breed.

[incuria]

I think you are very correct kudra. Ultimately one could only go so far without learning the script and just relying upon audio and pinyin.

It is good to see there is choice as to how deep you want to plunge into. I work on a front desk where a small percentage (10% - guess) of people I meet have South East Asian background and are invovled in litigation in the Court over work related injury and industrial relations/employment type issues. Most of those speak good english - only a smaller number (1% guess) can't communicate in english at all.

We have professional interpreters (usually asked for by the plaintiffs solicitor), to sit in Court and interpret in real time during the proceedings regardless of their standard of english.

Often the plaintiff will arrive before their solicitor or interpreter. I think it would be great for me to be able to greet and give directions/basic information in their native tongue to assist them feel at ease with the process. Who wouldn't feel nervous going to Court?

Hence relying upon audio to communicate in the first instance. As an Officer of the Court I can't start giving interpretations/translations on legal issues so basic tourist type dialogue to help settle people in before their solicitor arrives will be just the thing.

Thanks for the info on Huang and Stimson. Shall keep an eye out for it on the net. I'll stick to audio and pinyin for the moment and just get used to the sounds of the language.

[gato]

small percentage (10% - guess) of people I meet have South East Asian background and are invovled in litigation

Do you know if they speak Mandarin Chinese? Don't want to plunge in and study the wrong language.

[bomaci]

I guess what you need is people to chime in, who've had success getting to mid intermediate level, for example, doing self study using off the shelf audio/cd products. My guess, based on nothing but my experiential bias toward the "academic" treatment, is that they are a rare breed.

I have gotten to the intermediate level (if intermediate level means that you understand the last lesson of "David and Helen in china" ) almost entirely through self study. However I have also had many opportunities to communicate with natvie speakers. I first used Pimsleur and later "Standard chinese: a modular approach" by the Foreign Service Institute. However I am not sure that I would recommend either. I would suggest you have a look at the Assimil chinese course. You can read about the Assimil methodology more in detail here: http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22&PN=1&TPN=1.

[incuria]

#7 Gato my percentages and geography are probably way out. A fairer picture is a cross section of clients come by. Languages include Mandarin, Vietnamese, Arabic, Farsi/Dari, Spanish. I can almost guess the origin of the client by surname, against a backdrop of mainly caucasian people.

The assigned interpreters put any guess work to rest by identifying themselves as "I'm the Farsi interpreter for Ms ....." (so I get to cheat on that score )

I seem to think that a lot of people in chinese forum are learning for more exacting and professional roles of linguistic use than I will ever need to worry about.

I do take my hat off to those people. I admire anyone who is mulitilingual regardless of the purpose or origin of that learning process. I think it is great the way people "think aloud" on the forum and give ideas on their learning curve to where they are heading.

[gato]

Good luck, incuria!

[stephanhodges]

I see that the Assimil approach for Chinese was just released. Do you have personal experience with it, or just have faith that "it must be good" because it's Assimil?

According to http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2235&PN=1, it still wasn't available by March 2006 (for English speakers), although the Assimil web site does offer it now.

Regardless of how good the program is, there's only 2 1/2 hours of audio with the first (of two) course. Pimsleur beats that hands down. IMO, that's much more important, as long as the items being taught are fairly accurate.

[Ferno]

ideally you should have gone through Rosetta Stone before doing anything else (grammar, english translations, pinyin, characters)..

[johnmck]

Now you have learnt some of the language why don't you try using it. You learn more by speaking than by listening. Get yourself a Chinese language partner at: http://www.polyglot-learn-language.com/index_polyglot.php

There are lots of Chinese who will help you speak Chinese if you help them speak English (or other languages) If you have ADSL and use Skype then it does not cost you a penny.

[pookie]

Hi everyone,

I'm also just coming to the end of Pimsleurs level 3. I've had language partners since before I'd started level 1 (at that point i'd done a one year course at Leeds Met Uni). It's fair to say other than making good friends, having a language partner until at least being at Pims level 3 was useless. Unless of course they are natural teachers and can purely teach you rather than conversation exchange.

I now find that I can effectively have a conversation partner now that I've nearly finished level 3. One thing you wont have is being able to rely on the repetition to ingrain a new word. So make notes when with a language partner and ensure that you have them memorized before the next meeting. Maybe 5 -10 new words a meeting is a good way of progressing. I've used text books before when at Leeds Met, and they were boring an unmotivating. a language partner is the way forward for me. I'm fortunate that I live in Nottingham and have 3,500 native Chinese on my doorstep to choose from. My email request last year for a partner elicited over 300 responses - mainly from girls! They seem to be far more interested in language exchange. Anyway, I'm digressing.

GET A LANGUAGE PARTNER AFTER FINISHING LEVEL 3!

[bomaci]

I see that the Assimil approach for Chinese was just released. Do you have personal experience with it, or just have faith that "it must be good" because it's Assimil?

According to http://how-to-learn-any-language.com...?TID=2235&PN=1, it still wasn't available by March 2006 (for English speakers), although the Assimil web site does offer it now.

Regardless of how good the program is, there's only 2 1/2 hours of audio with the first (of two) course. Pimsleur beats that hands down. IMO, that's much more important, as long as the items being taught are fairly accurate.

I friend of mine is using the Assimil chinese so I have had a look at it. I would use it myself but I already know most of the vocabulary it teaches so it feels a bit pointless. Sure if you count the CD:s there is more audio in a Pimsleur course but you have to consider how much of that audio consists of pauses and English prompts. Furhtermore there is alot of repetion in Pimsleur so the number of unique sentences taught in Pimsleur isn't necessarily that big. The audio in assimil is chinese and only chinese. I have used Pimsleur mandarin myself and I enjoyed it but I'm starting to think that Assimil is a much more efficient way of learning a language. The Assimil chinese course has 105 lessons and teaches about 1500 words so it goes much further than Pimsleur. Futhermore towards the end of the course the speakers start speaking at more natural speed than in Pimsleur,so Assimil also has some use for training listening comprehension. I think that if you took two learners with equal talent and let one of them use Assimil for 6 months and one of them use Pimsleur the Assimil learner would have progressed much farther.

[runehh]

A lot of good input for me to look at, I will have a look at the different suggestions and see how it goes.

Anticks, about my level now (having finished Pimsleur III lesson 25) I find that people can understand me very easily and also that I pick up new words much easier than before. However, I still struggle when people speak to me if they speak at normal pace, and obviously there are still many words I don´t know. Also, some of the commonly used words in Pimsleur are not used that much in the place I am staying (in Zhejiang). For example, nar (where) is narli, idienar (a little) is idienidien and so on. Once you remember this it is not a big problem but for a beginner, such as myself, it can be quite confusing. So, as happy as I am with Pimsleur, I still find there is a long way to go before I can make actual conversation, or understand a conversation between two Chinese people.

[incuria]

Thanks Bomaci. That is good feed back.

Has anyone used either the "Teach Yourself Chinese or Teach Yourself Beginners Chinese - same British publisher and author - one has a slightly larger book (by 100pgs or so)" or the "Colloquial Chinese - (Routledge Publisher in USA)" self teaching courses?

They both use a book/cd's combination and look to cover similar material with the Teach Yourself Series also having a dedicated but seperate learn Beginners Chinese script book.

These seem to bridge the gap from just audio to combined audio - script/pinyin. Maybe beyond Pimsleur but before (New/Old) Practical Chinese Reader Course?

For example broadly grouping in order of difficulty/content:

Pimsleur (audio only) - vocab 500 words?

Assimal (audio with book) but more vocabulary - 1500 words?

Colloquial Chinese (audio + introduction to script)

Teach Yourself Chinese (audio + short introduction to script) + (extra learn script book available)

Practical Chinese Reader (audio + pinyin/script leading to pinyin phased out/script only in extra volumes).

Comments anyone?

[yingguoguy]

I bought Colloquial Chinese as one of my first Chinese text books and can't say I cared for it very much. I don't have the book with me and haven't looked at it for a year or so, but if I remember rightly, it didn't focus enought on hanzi and I found the audio a little too fast as a beginner. (Though if you're using it to suppliment Pimsleur this might not be a problem). Found the layout of having pinyin and hanzi in seperate sections rather than above/below each other confusing and awkward. I ended up using the (Old) Practical Chinese Reader, which I'm fond of dispite it's faults. I find the New PCR series excellent, but haven't seen Textbook 1 so don't know if it's suitable.

I'd echo what Pookie said, there's a right time to get a language partner, if you can't say anything then it will be very boring for them. It's worth paying someone for a few lessons to help you with your tones and basic pronounication though.

I'm fortunate that I live in Nottingham and have 3,500 native Chinese on my doorstep to choose from.

Ask them to teach you one hanzi each and you'll be literate.

[nongmin]

If you have a fast internet connection, you may want to try www.instantspeakchinese.com

This new system is similar to Pimsleur but covers more dialogs/vocabulary and uses more practical language. You can hear every word pronounced clearly by rolling over the word. I am the product manager for this product so let me know if you have any questions. We've spent quite a while developing the product and its received great reviews.

There is an online video demo at www.instantspeakchinese.com/faq.cfm -> then click on the "Lessons" demo.

[stephanhodges]

Nongmin, perhaps you could start a new thread and introduce the product. I have a couple questions, but I don't want to misdirect this thread.