Taiwanese Question

[dynaemu]

If I was to go to Taiwan.. would I need to learn taiwanese and mandarin? or do I eve NEED to know mandarin to be in taiwan?

This always bugged me which language i would need to learn before I go there lol...

Songs are in mandarin (as far as I know) and TV shows are in Taiwanese.. its all confusing...

Someone help?

[pookie]

Hi,

Mandarin should be your priority, nearly everyone there speaks it on a daily basis. Schools, businesses, and from what I believe, most TV channels are in Mandarin. Learning Taiwanese could be fun and you will have a chance to use it, but if you're learning Mandarin too then it could be a stretch too far as they are quite different.

P.S My wife's family are Taiwanese and dont speak a word of Taiwanese - only Mandarin. Granted they're ethnically Chinese but not for the last 2 generations.

[ZhuJiesheng]

well I'm learning mandarin but my mums family are taiwanese; to be honest althought there are a few differences in pronounciation I can still understand her most of the time when she speaks slowly so you should be able to get along in taiwan with mandarin. Although it could be that us just talking accented mandarin to me instead of taiwanese, I've never quite been sure... >.

[bhchao]

pookie is right. Mandarin definitely should be your priority.

Not everyone in Taiwan understands Taiwanese. Many in fact cannot understand it, especially second or third generation residents in Taipei. But almost everyone in Taiwan understands Mandarin.

[Mugi]

to be honest althought there are a few differences in pronounciation I can still understand her most of the time when she speaks slowly...Although it could be that us just talking accented mandarin to me instead of taiwanese, I've never quite been sure...

Can you give some examples of what your mum might say that sounds "Taiwanese" to you? Mandarin and Taiwanese are very different - unless a Mandarin speaker has had a reasonable amount of exposure to Taiwanese, they're only going to be able to pick out the odd word, much like a monolingual English speaker listening to German. Having said that, there is definitely a strong relationship between the two - if you have a strong Mandarin base, it's not that difficult to pick up some Taiwanese with a little effort.

[mpallard]

I rarely meet a Taiwanese person who doesn't at least understand Taiwanese. Maybe they are more acustomed to using mandarin, but if someone asks them a question in Taiwanese they should be able to understand.

Even as a foreigner living in Taipei and am starting to realize the need to learn a little Taiwanese. It's not that people can't speak mandarin but often when you go out with a group of people (guys seem to like speaking Taiwanese more than girls) they often times will use Taiwanese.

I suppose if you grew up in Taipei there is a chance you would not be able to speak Taiwanese but I don't see how it's all that likely considering there are so many people around you speaking it you would probably learn it through osmosis.

Anyway, if you were to come to Taiwan and study a language Mandarin would be the logical choice. Even if you had no interest in going to other Chinese speaking countries, (virtually) everyone in Taiwan can at least understand mandarin whereas Taiwanese is understood by most Taiwanese, hope I made the distinction clear.

[in_lab]

If you want to study Chinese for the specific purpose of talking to your in-laws, then Taiwanese might be a better choice. Otherwise, probably mandarin.

[kudra]

@mpallard

when I lived with a family in taipei (1983) the parents and granny could speak both Mandarin and Taiwanese(no English), but they only spoke Mandarin with their 2 daughters ages about 4 and 7. Their stated goal was that their kids would only speak Mandarin. As I recall not all of my students could speak Taiwanese. Things may be more integrated now, post 1987.

[Mugi]

If you want to study Chinese for the specific purpose of talking to your in-laws, then Taiwanese might be a better choice

That's assuming the in-laws are Ho-lo (Hoklo) and not Hakka, aborigine or Waishengren.

[HashiriKata]

That's assuming the in-laws are Ho-lo (Hoklo) and not Hakka, aborigine or Waishengren.

In that case, learn Taiwanese and then choose your in-laws wisely!

[wix]

It is important to distinguish between Mandarin spoken with a Taiwanese accent and the Taiwanese language (aka Hoklo or Minnan). The former is little different than the Mandarin spoken in China, although the pronunciation of some of the sounds is often confused. e.g. zh/z and sh/s. Taiwanese is a completely different language. It doesn't matter how good your Mandarin is, you won't be able to understand it.

[pookie]

Hi all,

I think it really depends on the social group you're exposed to when you're there. My wife's family are all ethnically Chinese and so are her friends. If I recall she only has one Taiwanese friend who can understand Taiwanese. From my experience, there is often reluctance for one group to learn the other's language as there has been histotical tension between the ancient invaders (Taiwanese) and the recent ones (1949ish). My wife's family simply aren't interested in learning Taiwanese and have no need to since everyone knows Mandarin (except for when we went to the east coats Hualian, TaiDong etc), where you will see more traditional tribal villages. My wife's family equally have no wish to identify themselves with current mainlanders either. It seems they now have their own group - Mandarin Taiwanese, who are quite different from Taiwans other ethnic minorities and also the mainland's people.

It seems common that pure mandarin speakers in Taiwan look down on the pure Taiwanese in Taiwan, and I've heard/seen examples of the opposite too. It's just not balanced. For example, my father-in-law rose fast to become Director of IT in Taiwan Nuclear Power under KMT rule (he did work very hard though but got the opportunities he worked for), under DPP he's not been able to get a promotion for many years despite being the ideal candidate in many situations, a, what I call, Taiwanese Taiwanese has always been selected. This sort of thing doesn't help cultural integration.

For the most part though the ethnic groups in Taiwan mix better than those in China (Tibet, Xinjiang etc), although size and distance is a factor I'm sure.

[wix]

As a general rule the quality of Mandarin and the amount of Taiwanese spoken in Taiwan follows some simple rules.

North to South: more Mandarin in the north, more Taiwanese in the south

young to old: younger people speak Mandarin more often and usually better than older people

urban to rural: Mandarin dominates in the larger cities, in rural areas Taiwanese is the primary means of communication

There are a few other trends. The education system is dominated by the use of Mandarin. The media generally uses mandarin although there are now Taiwanese and Hakka TV and radio stations. Taiwanese will generally be spoken among family members, but outside the home and in formal situations the use of Mandarin will be preferred.

[bhchao]

North to South: more Mandarin in the north, more Taiwanese in the south

South of Taizhong is probably where the linguistic difference becomes significant from the north.

[atitarev]

I practised Mandarin with a Chinese doctor from Taiwan, he had a very standard Mandarin accent, IMHO. I haven't asked him but I think he is exposed to accents of mainlanders here in Melbourne or just trying to speak correctly. The other Taiwanese I spoke to had this s/sh, z/zh issue but they could fix it when they put an effort.

[Mugi]

For the most part though the ethnic groups in Taiwan mix better than those in China (Tibet, Xinjiang etc), although size and distance is a factor I'm sure.

You're comparing apples with oranges. There's not much "ethnic" mixing to do - Hoklo, Hakka and Waishengren are all ethnically Chinese. Only about 2% of the population are non Han (i.e. aborigine). Although granted, in the past it would seem the Chinese and aborigines did infact mix well.

[Kathy]

Hi,

Since you will need to eat, find a restroom and buy a train ticket as some point, you will defintely want to lean some Mandarin. However, since your in-laws are Taiwanese, learning at least a little Taiwanese will give you the chance to show your in-laws that you respect them. You defintely want to learn how to say that the food they prepare for you is good! The sound system for Taiwanese is different from that of Mandarin, so be prepared for more tones and the nasal sound. The most important thing is to show that you are putting forth the effort. I don't doubt that your in-laws will be delighted to teach you.

Good luck,

Kathy

[流]

Could anyone tell me the ratio of Taiwanese/Mandarin used in Hualien? Thanks! From August 18, I'll be in Hualien for nearly a year. Wish me luck!

如果你知道的話，請教我！

謝謝

[Lu]

I think most people there will be able to speak both, but prefer Taiwanese over Mandarin if they talk to each other.

I'd advise you to learn a few TW phrases (hello, goodbye, thank you, sorry), but concentrate on Mandarin for further conversation. Mandarin is both more widely used and (imho) easier than Taiwanese, and there is more learning material for it. Unless there is a specific need for you to learn Taiwanese (need to talk to inlaws, conducting a survey among elderly Taiwanese) it's a better idea to learn Mandarin.

[adrianlondon]

I spent a few days in Hualian with mandarin (and taiwanese) speaking friends. They used mandarin the whole time as did everyone else who spoke with them. The only time I heard any Taiwanese was when I was forced to endure a KTV session