HSK basic questions

[Pravit]

I'm using an HSK basic practice book and was confused by a few questions:

Speaker: 我游泳比哥哥快.

Pictures:

C is correct, but I don't see why A is any less correct. The speaker is just saying that he/she swims faster than his/her older brother, right?

Speaker: 除了一盘饺子以外，我还点了两个菜，一瓶啤酒.

Pictures:

B is the correct one, but how is it any different from A? As far as I understand, the speaker is saying that besides a plate of dumplings, he has ordered two other dishes and a bottle of beer.

您今年多大年纪了？

A:３０来岁了

B:７０多了

C:上三年级

D:我有６３年

The correct answer is B, but why isn't A correct?

你们是不是听听他的意见？

A:是听他的

B:是他的意见

C:不用了吧

D:我们听得见

The correct answer is C, but I picked A. I don't see how that is an incorrect response.

打针以后，你觉得好点儿了吗?

A:一点儿

B:不太多

C:好多了

D:好得很

The correct answer is C, but I picked A. Can't I say I feel just a little bit better?

请问，从东京来的飞机什么时候到？

A:两个小时

B:半小时以前

C:没到东京

D:我查一下

Correct answer is D, I picked B thinking it meant "the plane from Dongjing will arrive in less than half an hour." Is that usage acceptable?

Thanks for any help!

[gougou]

For the pictures, I'm as much at a loss as you are (more so, in fact, in the first four, there is not a single one where I could pinpoint who is 哥哥 and who is not )

Not sure enough about the first two text ones after that to comment on them, either. The third one, however, should probably be 好一点儿了 if you want to say that you feel a little better.

The usage you proposed for the fourth one is incorrect, 半个小时前 means half an hour ago. Within half an hour should be 半个小时以内, I believe.

[roddy]

Can I ask which practice book? Some are better than others.

You might want to add number to the questions, will make it easier to refer to them.

1) No idea, pictures aren't really clear.

2) I'd guess you're meant to take 菜 as meaning 'not fish'. I think this might be plausible, as you could perhaps say something like '点了两个菜，一个（条）鱼‘，but I'd be surprised to see that tested in HSK basic.

3) 多大年纪 is more likely to be used respectfully for older people, also note the 您.

4) Would have to guess between C and A. - actually I wouldn't, I'd copy semantic nuance below.

5) Not sure if there are any usage rules here, but I think you'd be unlikely to just say 一点儿 on it's own - you'd have 好 in front of it.

I'm dubious about the questions to be honest - been a while since I looked at the HSK basic, but I remember it being a lot more straightforward.

[semantic nuance]

除了一盘饺子以外，我还点了两个菜，一瓶啤酒.

Picture A seems to have 2 plates of dumplings....I don't know....the picture is too small.

你们是不是听听他的意见？

A:是听他的

B:是他的意见

C:不用了吧

D:我们听得见

I think the question is 'would it be better to hear out his opinons?' It's a suggestion....so the answer should be C. You'll have to ask 你们是不是听他的意见？Then the answer is A 是听他的.

Hope it helps!

[md1101]

whoa for number 3 roddy seems to have the correct reason but DAMN why test something like that? surely there are plenty more things about the language to test than something as picky as that.

i wonder if the chinese struggle with some of these like we do sometimes with some of their equally as strange english papers.

[roddy]

Actually, that's the nearest thing in there to a decent question, I think. Try asking some little old Chinese guy with a long wispy beard '你几岁了？‘ and see what happens - the age thing is important in Chinese culture, and there are different ways of handling it. This question tests students ability to do so.

[Pravit]

Thank for your help!

About question 2), if "cai" means "not fish", then wouldn't that make answer B incorrect(B is the correct one)?

3) 多大年纪 is more likely to be used respectfully for older people, also note the 您.

That makes sense, but is it used exclusively for older people, or could you ask someone around 30 that question as well without implying that they look old?

I'm using the only HSK basic practice book I could find, linked to here:

http://www.chinesemall.com/hskchinproft.html

I took the mock test available at hsk.org.cn and found it much more straightforward.

I would guess from the amount of study material available that not that many people take HSK basic. I'm actually not planning on taking HSK basic; just studying it as prep for the placement exam at UIR in Beijing. I suppose it doesn't matter where I get put, really, but I'd like to get into the highest class I can.

[roddy]

Right enough, it would. No idea. From what you've said I think the book might have issues - I'd certainly trust the version from the hsk website over even BLCU publications.

[semantic nuance]

As for the age question above, when we were young learning Chinese, we were taught that 您 is used for being polite. It's still used in formal occassion. But nowadays in spoken language I hardly hear people use that when they speak to peers. Still baffled by your question and correct answers.....have to figure out if they're both ok.....When I have the answer, I'll post it.

Hope it helps!

[gato]

您 is more commonly used in northern China than the south. I've asked around, and nobody knows of a southern dialect with a equivalent for 您. For example, I know Shanghainese has only "nong" (你), which is used for addressing the young and the old alike. Therefore Shanghainese Mandarin speakers may find it awkward to use 您 when speaking to elders and superiors. I suspect that it may be true for other southern regions, as well. Could southern China be more egalitarian than the north?

[gamerfu]

In 西雅图 (Seattle), they teach us to use 您 all the time. Maybe because I live around Chinatown (100+ years old). We still use Traditional characters with ㄅㄆㄇ (bopomo). Pinying is being taught in school w/ Simplified, but no pinying/Simplified books sold localally, still Traditional.

[kudra]

My tutor, who is a 40 something native Beijinger, (moved to US about 5 yrs ago) addressed me as 您 in the first email after the initial contact over the phone. After that it's been 你。 I can't remember if 您 was used on the phone, I know I didn't. We are about the same age. I think I remember her telling me it is more of a Northern usage, which supports gato's claim, (not that gato needs any help from me.)

[gato]

My tutor, who is a 40 something native Beijinger, (moved to US about 5 yrs ago) addressed me as 您 in the first email after the initial contact over the phone

It's more about relative status than age. Your tutor addressed you as 您 since you're the customer, but it was no longer necessary once you became friendly with each other. However, you are supposed to always use 您 when there's a big gap in status between you and the person addressed, like the elderly, your teacher, your boss, Chairman Hu, etc.

[kudra]

At the risk of going completely off topic...

gato tells us to always use 您 with a teacher. But a tutor is a kind of teacher. Am I to guess that if the tutor is not a professional teacher, then the commercial relationship trumps the educational one?

[semantic nuance]

My opnion is that the adress of 您 is used to show politeness when you're with someone you're not familiar with. When you get aquainted with the one you're talking to, 你 is normally used. Unless you want to still keep a polite distance from the one you chat with, or vice versa. Or, you and your adressee are extremely polite. It happens in many other languages as well, for example, japanese, and french.

In French, 'vous' is used when you talk to someone for the first time, no matter what your age and your addressee's is. But after you get acquainted with each other, you may use 'te' instead.

[anonymoose]

In French, 'vous' is used when you talk to someone for the first time, no matter what your age and your addressee's is. But after you get acquainted with each other, you may use 'te' instead.

Between adults, maybe, but an adult would never address a child with 'vous'.

One thing I've noticed is that in email correspondence, 'vous' (French), 'Sie' (German) etc. are used much less frequently, even when it would be used in a similar context face to face.

[mrtoga]

I can't shed much more light on the HSK questions, except to agree that some of them are very poor. Actually some of the test books at intermediate and advanced are very poor, with a mistake about once every twenty questions. Probably best to work off of old test papers - the test books seem to be put together without much thought going into the questions, hence the mistakes.

For "nin" instead of "ni", "nin" is indeed used a lot in the north, especially at initial stages during business transactions. It is also noticeable that after moving the more familiar "ni" in such situations, a return to "nin" sometimes happens after a problem (maodun) occurs between the two parties. It is a clear expression that the two parties are back at "arms-length".