Signese

If it's a gentlemen at the other end of the phone I'm not interested

I think this one is going to get the better of me, but I haven't let that stop me yet. Interesting enough, if you google "刻章办证发票", you get about 400k hits.

Enough delay, here's my take on the first line

刻章办证发票 -- official business license (i.e. with a seal)

If these are illegal, why aren't they arrested? It seems pretty easy, just have an under-cover police office call the number, meet and buy it, and arrest the person? I guess it's not important enough....

Sorry. Couldn't get "spoiler" to work.

Something like

Carved seals to make authentic receipts.

Start issuing real receipts for out-patient hospital service tickets

@SiMaKe, Ah, that makes more sense. I did see a lot of hits for 刻章 to "make a chop", but I couldn't figure out why that would be illegal. [bTW, "spoiler" can be found under "Other styles".] [And rather than "tickets", I assume this is "receipts"? Or why would one need a ticket?]

@jbradfor

Thanks for the directions on including a "spoiler". I've been using codes from the Help menu as this shows what's available. Seems to be more options than there are buttons. Weird that directly inputting the codes doesn't work for this. At least here. I use codes all the time in the Forum.

Re the "tickets", I was ambivalent about ticket vs receipt vs bill vs invoice. I've not been to a hospital in China so don't know the protocols or what documentation is provided. I was guessing :rolleyes: that you first obtained a ticket (part of the 挂号 process), received the services and then had your "ticket" "validated".

I'm pretty sure you are much more informed that I am, so I'll go with whatever you think best.

Again, thank you so much for the help.

[Addendum]

Since I have a rather simple, non-criminal mind, and IF (that's a BIG IF) I got the message right, how does having such a seal/chop benefit someone? Do you just take it to the hospital with you, get treated, then leave. When you are approached going out the door, you just show them the "stamped" invoice/ticket? I really don't have a clue.

I'm pretty sure you are much more informed that I am, so I'll go with whatever you think best.

Surely you jest! That was a real a question. I'm hoping that someone who's had the (mis)fortune to use a Chinese hospital can answer.

In thinking about, "receipts" do not make sense either, as that would imply getting reimbursed for an expense you paid, USA-style, which I don't think is very common in China. Unless it's a fake chop to allow you to mark your invoice as "paid" when it's not, as per SiMaKe's idea.

Until someone that knows posts, I'm going to assume it has to do with the certificate you need to provide to show that you are eligible to use the out-patient services. But, as normal, I await being told I'm wrong...

By way of a hint - I would say there are five different offerings here. Although it might depend how you interpret the second line, it might be four, one with two sub-services. Hmmm.

It seems pretty easy, just have an under-cover police office call the number, meet and buy it, and arrest the person? I guess it's not important enough....

The reports I've seen make out that this is always a scam - you'll be asked to pay money to a bank account in advance, and then maybe some more money, and you never actually get the goods. The phone numbers and bank accounts will be in some no-mark rural town, and while the Beijing police might do something if CCTV want to do a news item, they're generally busy not catching real criminals.

Maybe in some cases you do actually get the 'goods', I don't know.

Edit: Or perhaps the second line should be seen as an expansion of one of the items on the first. Hmmm ...

The reports I've seen make out that this is always a scam ...

Now that makes sense. Told you I had a simple, non-criminal mind.

I think I'm going to have to give up on this one. This is what I think I got.

刻章 -- make a chop/seal. I can't figure out if they are really offering to make a fake chop/seal for you, or if their products come with an official-looking seal.

办证 -- I'm not sure whether the the 证 refers to a fake 毕业证书 and the 办 is separate, or if they are one word and it refers to some sort of business license

发票 -- make some sort of invoice/ticket/bill. Not sure what kind, but it's probably illegal.

代开机打真发票门诊住院票 -- machine / printer to make make real (looking) invoice/ticket/bill for outpatient hospital ticket. Again, not sure what type of 票. [And don't tell me it's a 门诊住院票 !]

Uncle.

Not quite yet ready to quit.

加油！ 加油！

Stamped certified receipts.

Authorized genuine printed receipts, out-patient, in-patient receipts

@jbradfor

From what I can tell (may be way off the mark here) this scam seems to revolve around some reimbursement practices initiated as part of health care reform? If so, it may work something like: get an invoice, stamp it, submit for reimbursement.

Here is something I found on explaining 代开发票. In this case, it seems to be saying something about authorizing (?) the IRS (?) to do something on your company's behalf (?). So I'm guessing this is possibly some type of "authorization".

代开发票是在国税局，由国税局工作人员代你公司开你想要开的商品.

Here is a link to an article on these signs. Unfortunately, the terminology is similar to the sign and extracting meaning is not forthright (for me).

I'm beginning to think that if we knew more about the hospital/insurance process, the sign would might make more sense.

Ok, I guess you lot deserve some answers . . .

The first line should be read

刻章 - to carve chops. In China the company chops are basically equivalent to signatures, so this would be a prelude to forgery of some kind.

办证 - this will be fake certification or id of some kind, depending on what you want - ID cards, diplomas, company licenses.

发票 - China has 'official' tax receipts which are meant to be used in business transactions. If you can source some extras you can offset those 'expenses' against tax, or claim them back from your company, depending on circumstances.

Now the second line . . .

代开机打真发票门诊住院票

代 (on your behalf)开 (issue)机打 (machine printed - companies have receipt printing machines issued by the tax authorities) 真发票 (so they're real receipts, not fakes) 门诊 ( and out-patient)住院(inpatient)票 (also 发票, ie a receipt for payment to the hospital)

So basically, they'll give you (allegedly real) receipts so that you can offset them against tax, claim them back from your employer, or in the case of the hospital whoever pays your medical expenses - could be your employer, insurance co, maybe even government, I don't know.

That's as I understand it anyway.

Thanks roddy.

The major piece we were missing（along with a coherent outcome :rolleyes: ) was that companies have these receipt printing machines issued by the tax authorities (代开发票 concept）. That makes it all hang together nicely now.

Very enlightening.

I was stuck on the 代开机打 part. Thanks jbradfor and Roddy for clearing that up.

The "代开" grammar was pretty befuddling to me, because 代 used as a single, separate word normally includes the co-subject/agent/whatever, e.g. 代我问候. Is this sort of usage of 代 quite common in signese/other abbreviated Chinese?

Hmmm, there's also 代办。