Should Chinese frogive Japanese?

[holyman]

这么快就夹尾巴跑啦？

i have been asking lots of questions in this thread, yet it seems the chinese avoided them all together, only me aswering them.

这么说我也没有任何观点,我说的都是我朋友说的(看我这人多没主见啊),我也是转述,而且PARTIALLY AGREE,因为当初的日本人有些至今还活着,而且不肯认输,甚至还讽刺中国如果不是有美国原子弹爆炸,他们不会失败. 还有他们种种变态的生活习惯,不用我说你也知道是什么. 当然他们有那么做的自由, 我(的朋友们)也有鄙视他们的自由. 最后补充, 我指的是一小部分日本人.现在您满意了没有?

I m afraid you got me wrong, I mean I dislike them, so I have the right no to do something with them. I dislike them, it's a simple fact.

speaks for itself again...

well, for the first time in your posting hitory, you quoted evidences from communist Chinese gov's history book. But if my memory serves me correctly, you've despised such kind of books. Is that a surprise to CCP?

...I believe it's not describing his own action's results if he is not an idiot.

u are correct that ccp is pro taiping revolution and nian army. but what i quote is more about 'huihui', a minority race, which revolt in nw china. and i dont think all the sources that i listed, including zuo zongtang's own words(which could be found in his writing collection《左文襄公全集》), are pro ccp . by the way, so does it mean u are anti ccp or do u think highly of mr zuo's action? yes or no? do u think mr zuo actually liberated the nw without much violence, and the 'ccp history book' is actually bull.shiting?

if zuo can say all these in his report to the emperor, the actually situation, i believed, is much worst than he descibed. example, in the battle of 'jinji bao' alone, 120k muslim militants were killed. civilians? only 900+ were taken as p.o.w., all the rest massacred.

Yes, we did, and we apologize for this if you want.

i'll waive that, dont take it to heart...

Yes, I will do that, if:

1, I m majoring in history

2, i got retired right now.

sometimes it makes me wonder, doesnt it seems funny when u can talk about japanese invasion, or even know their '变态的生活习惯', yet u need a foreigner to tell u what mr zuo did in recent history? and u retreat without a single evidence to counter his views, except claiming that he's 'quoting from ccp p.o.v.', which is u own govt, absolutely amazing! didnt u learn ur 'japanese history' from ccp point of view? anyway, the foreigner doesnt major in history either.

i dont know if there is something wrong with the media or propaganda or education here, cos i have met a certain amount of educated chinese who can tell me non-stop what the japanese had done, which japanese companies are anti-chinese, what 变态的生活习惯 japanese had. but when i asked them 'did u heard of xxxxxx in chinese history', they'll reply, why, no, what's it about? tell me about it, i'm really interested.

seems that they know more about japanese history than their own, even more than japanese themselves...

[holyman]

What's the result there? Manchurian even lost their language after all. and anyway, we are Chinese. No matter what conflict we have had, 兄弟阋于墙，外御其侮 Do you have any dissidence about this? Or 你想挑拨我们的民族感情吗？

the result is i see a phenomenon the great lu xun had described: ah Q.

i wonder when was manchurian regard as 兄弟? ccp point of view? oh i see, no wonder 袁崇焕 and 岳飞 have to be killed. they are actually traitors who fought our chinese 兄弟, and 满江红 is probably a 反诗, am i right? probably 嘉定三屠 and 扬州十日 is justifiable, to eradicate those without 兄弟之情, right? man, they deserved to be killed, right? then its probably wrong for mr sun yat sen to say '驱逐鞑虏', right? aiya, kmt must be a bunch of low life rebels, right? please do enlighten the foreigner.

oh, and since they are 'chinese' as u said, the above 2 examples of massacre can probably be compared to the nanking massacre really. since yangzhou was a city of a mil. pop. at that time. look what the 'chinese' had done!! the japanese probably learnt that from them.

[39degN]

哥们你真有股胡搅蛮缠的劲，如果你真是西方人，那你可以申请吉尼斯世界记录了，太执著了，以前没见过啊。

speaks for itself again...

你不会连这段是讽刺你的都看不出来吧？

你如果真的想这么追究，请看

the 'hatred' japanese had towards the chinese are slightly different. they didnt want the chinese eliminated or their land nuked.

for example i knew the chinese businessmen cheat other chinese as well if given half a chance, not exactly to foreigners only. but the foreigners might think otherwise. any other implications is up to the individual to decide, i am not suggesting anything and these statements had nothing to do with ww2 issues. i am just stating some of the reasons why japanese and probably other foreigners sometimes showed their dislike towards the chinese, this is probably some cultural shock issues, for example i knew the chinese businessmen cheat other chinese as well if given half a chance, not exactly to foreigners only.

sorry to disappoint u, i dont think i had made a personal remark on all chinese in this thread. the closest thing was when i reflected opinion on all chinese from certain people, example, from those japanese or koreans i knew, but these are not necessarily my own opinions.

speaks for itself again and again...

u are correct that ccp is pro taiping revolution and nian army. but what i quote is more about 'huihui', a minority race, which revolt in nw china. and i dont think all the sources that i listed, including zuo zongtang's own words(which could be found in his writing collection《左文襄公全集》), are pro ccp.

Ok, I added huihui after taiping and nian. If you think that's not pro ccp, you can hold it by yourself, but it can't change the fact.

I have never said zuo's words are pro ccp, man! I mean the article just 断章取义, distorted zuo's words. How can a men describes his own criminal, even to the emperor, if he is not an idiot? He's just talking about the calamity by huihui rebellion. Seems you really need to improve your ancient Chinese.

by the way, so does it mean u are anti ccp or do u think highly of mr zuo's action? yes or no? do u think mr zuo actually liberated the nw without much violence, and the 'ccp history book' is actually bull.shiting?

why should I answer you these? I just reasoning it by your logic, what's the matter with me? Would you contradict yourself? Then I cant help any.

if zuo can say all these in his report to the emperor, the actually situation, i believed, is much worst than he descibed. example, in the battle of 'jinji bao' alone, 120k muslim militants were killed. civilians? only 900+ were taken as p.o.w., all the rest massacred.

U answered yourself, that's called war. About the civilians killed amount, pls give source.

sometimes it makes me wonder, doesnt it seems funny when u can talk about japanese invasion, or even know their '变态的生活习惯', yet u need a foreigner to tell u what mr zuo did in recent history? and u retreat without a single evidence to counter his views, except claiming that he's 'quoting from ccp p.o.v.', which is u own govt, absolutely amazing! didnt u learn ur 'japanese history' from ccp point of view? anyway, the foreigner doesnt major in history either.

it's not funny at all, if a foreigner chasing meaningless all day, we cant 奉陪 anymore.

No, I learnt the history from you foreigner's websites. Govt and individuals are different things, I don't wanna teach your grandma to suck eggs. And I didn't admit your evidences is simply because of you've never admit such kind of things, so we follow your standard, would you hold double standards here?

Though a foreigner may not major in history, but he may major in bicker and using google, so we couldn't 奉陪 again. I m extremely sorry.

i dont know if there is something wrong with the media or propaganda or education here, cos i have met a certain amount of educated chinese who can tell me non-stop what the japanese had done, which japanese companies are anti-chinese, what 变态的生活习惯 japanese had. but when i asked them 'did u heard of xxxxxx in chinese history', they'll reply, why, no, what's it about? tell me about it, i'm really interested.

above answered it already. And you are wrong again, I m not educated, im an illiteracy, our educated wouldn't join this kind of debates.

even more than japanese themselves...

how can you know if you are not a Japanese? or you are?

meanwhile, as a "foreigner", you could know chinese hitory more than us, why we couldnt know something more than japanese themselves? you are always so cute, oh, I love you!

[39degN]

the result is i see a phenomenon the great lu xun had described: ah Q.

i wonder when was manchurian regard as 兄弟? ccp point of view? oh i see, no wonder 袁崇焕 and 岳飞 have to be killed. they are actually traitors who fought our chinese 兄弟, and 满江红 is probably a 反诗, am i right? probably 嘉定三屠 and 扬州十日 is justifiable, to eradicate those without 兄弟之情, right? man, they deserved to be killed, right? then its probably wrong for mr sun yat sen to say '驱逐鞑虏', right? aiya, kmt must be a bunch of low life rebels, right? please do enlighten the foreigner.

you do really need some enlightening, but i wouldnt rise to your bait, otherwise you would call me racist.

[39degN]

给你个台阶你就赶快下了算了，非要来个鱼死网破？

[holyman]

你不会连这段是讽刺你的都看不出来吧？

你如果真的想这么追究，请看

hmm, dont see anything suspicious... maybe ur 讽刺 is somehow 不到家, or maybe u should stop 断章取义-ing. look for the next few lines... the japanese 'hatred' towards the chinese(that i knew of) is different from the 'hatred' chinese had towards japanese(that i knew of ~ actually i really dont see other kinds of hatred, except display of violence, from those chinese who are 'anti-japanese' that i met. of course, there are friendly chinese, but they dont bear hatred towards japanese, so its out of context).

are u trying to say chinese businessmen dont cheat chinese, they cheat only foreigners? chinese saying, 无商不奸, just looking from chinese point of view.

Ok, I added huihui after taiping and nian. If you think that's not pro ccp, you can hold it by yourself, but it can't change the fact

hahahaha, zuo zongtang's own words and his reports to the emperor, plus all those books that i listed, were around b4 communism came to china, u think when the history book quoted from these, they bcame pro ccp? do u know the meaning of '钦定'? or do u need me to quote from the huihui point of view? or maybe some non-ccp, 海外学者 point of view? check up wikipedia and u probably cant find the 'nian army' page, so u think ccp supported these? good try, i'm impressed.

I have never said zuo's words are pro ccp, man! I mean the article just 断章取义, distorted zuo's words. How can a men describes his own criminal, even to the emperor, if he is not an idiot?

so how should zuo's words be according to u? please read his writing collections b4 commenting. do u think zuo is capable of realising killing pows or commoners is illegal? at that time the more he kill the higher his position goes. he'll happily report his success, and also show his 'regrets' to the dead.

[39degN]

ok, man, 我认输, 我服你了!

P.S. i m tired.

[holyman]

U answered yourself, that's called war. About the civilians killed amount, pls give source.

check '金积堡' with any chinese search engine, even google, then u will see.

meanwhile, as a "foreigner", you could know chinese hitory more than us, why we couldnt know something more than japanese themselves? you are always so cute, oh, I love you!

thank u, i just know a little more than the illiterate. anyway ethnically speaking i am a chinese, so why shouldnt i know more about chinese history?

给你个台阶你就赶快下了算了，非要来个鱼死网破？

哈，你算老几？u dont own this forum and i dont need u to give a 台阶. better find one for urself, cos u probably cant 自圆其说 anymore.

[holyman]

you do really need some enlightening, but i wouldnt rise to your bait, otherwise you would call me racist.

ha, the line btw 'cant' and 'wouldnt' is really vague, but i'll take ur word for it, since u probably wouldnt be as stupid as general zuo to talk about his own 'evil' acts.

[39degN]

if these stupid debates can change any of reality, i will continue it, otherwise, sorry, i dont have to 自圆其说, after all, it's just a stupid sophism, anyway, thank you for your time.

hope to communicate with you on other topic.

[cathaykid]

haven't been here for a while and wow what happened to this thread...

i think it would be pointless to repeat my points to answer the quoted part,so i'll try to make it more about facts,other than childhood stories ,history books or personal experiences.....

The Jews never forget.they still chased after the war criminals a few years ago.i don't know whether they've stopped but even if they have,it's probably because the old soldiers all died

holyman,what's your preach for them?

the German governments keep sending X'mas gifts to an old victim miles away,and she iss not the only one

the German wouldn't worship the "heroes" who died for killing the innocents

i don't see right-wing dignitary being admired in political circles or working in the government

the German make TV commercials against the right-wings

and i don't think the German governments right now started the war or anything

when the young German complain about having to take responsibilities,the international society will blame them

why is japan the exception?

now take a look at Japan and that's why people hate them.they showed no guilts and that's not a good sign.forgiveness for certain people brings us the history back again.

this is not someone's less-than-100-year life,it's the history.you forgive someone and you'll both die sooner or later,but countries are there until the end of the world.you just can't let it be because japan IS a threat,as they're still taking China as a threat

well i don't pay too much attention to Chinese history books,they don't mention much about this at school either.less than we should know.

i dislike them mostly for what is happening right now.my parents and grandparents never taught me to hate.but all the people,abroad or not,Chinese or Korean,hating one government,it should mean something other than MISUNDERSTANDING.

not beneficial?ha.where do you think all the resources they got from wars went to?during and after WW2,much of them were used for rebuilding poor little Japan.

or let's see it this way,what if we charged for amands?they would be still paying off the debt TODAY

since you've brough up the point that they suffered from the war,too...this is what annoys me

what the heck was with the people at that time?

a school headmaster led his primary students to commit suicide when he heard the government had surrendered.

that's only one case,more happened then

many people cried,not for the dead,but for losing

the white house asked a US professor who had studied on Japan for ages,whether nuclear was necessary to stop the war

and the answer turned out something like this:"if the king wants the people to walk on their hands or kill themselves or blah blah blah,they'll do it.but if the king wants to surrender,that's another thing"

supporting a filthy war like this,even when they lost,was just sick

i don't doubt that there are nice japanese.but please give me a freaky break,when you encounter people like this for once or twice you really won't like all of them,whoever they are:

they sell the second class products here,they denied what they did,they act stuck-up here even though they have to sleep in the streets in Tokyo,a japanese soldier in jail wrote his experience in war with disrepspect to chinese people

and my sister and her husband know what it's like to be working in sony.it's hard to like a boss who is late everyday and blaming his Chinese employees for being late.

and how many times did the people here insist we do not hate all japanese?

cliches VS cliches......sigh

[holyman]

The Jews never forget.they still chased after the war criminals a few years ago.i don't know whether they've stopped but even if they have,it's probably because the old soldiers all died

holyman,what's your preach for them?

'war criminals'. i dont see jews targeting common germans. as i said, go sue the japanese veterans and japanese govt, just like what japanese lawyers had done to help those chinese kidnapped to fukouka, japan.

the German governments keep sending X'mas gifts to an old victim miles away,and she iss not the only one

the German wouldn't worship the "heroes" who died for killing the innocents

i don't see right-wing dignitary being admired in political circles or working in the government

1, the yasukuni jinja holds the remains of 2.5mil soldiers who died for the country in the last century. only 14 of them are ww2 war criminals.

2, it is against the japanese constitution to mix religion with politics, therefore japanese ministers arent supposed to pay respects in the jinja. however, it is up to the japanese govt to prosecute them. as for the commoners, they dont. there is hardly any commoners who visit the yasukuni jinja on any normal day, except maybe the family members of the dead. most young japanese doesnt knew about that place either.

3, in japan, right wings usually equals to yakuza groups. they were hired to beat up student protesters during the 60's, when japanese students protested against the japanese-american security pact, so commoners dont have good impression on them. every 15th aug these right wings will go out the streets in a old volkswagon van decorated with the japanese flag and played navy tunes. but no one really take a look at them.

right wing politicians are only a small bunch of people. they are in office becos of numourous reasons. u have to understand the japanese political culture first in order to understand that. they are not being admired, imagine every time they say something their bosses have to apologise over the media and ask for forgiveness, do u think people will like them? do u think their boss will like them? but still, they do get some people to support them.

the German governments keep sending X'mas gifts to an old victim miles away,and she iss not the only one

the German wouldn't worship the "heroes" who died for killing the innocents

i don't see right-wing dignitary being admired in political circles or working in the government

japan provided at least $30bil worth of interest free loans and aid to china since '72, not to mention providing training and professionals in various fields. numurous japanese cities and universities have established ties with chinese cities and universities, and had arranged for visits and exchange program to stregthen mutual understandings.

about the right wings, again, thats bcos u are not familiar with the japanese political culture.

this is not someone's less-than-100-year life,it's the history.you forgive someone and you'll both die sooner or later,but countries are there until the end of the world.you just can't let it be because japan IS a threat,as they're still taking China as a threat

i see french, germans and brits fought numerous war in the past and yet they are friends now. they are still competitors but i dont think they see each other as threats.

not beneficial?ha.where do you think all the resources they got from wars went to?during and after WW2,much of them were used for rebuilding poor little Japan.

or let's see it this way,what if we charged for amands?they would be still paying off the debt TODAY

please check ur facts. they rebuilt their country with the help of america, not chinese resources. by the end of the war, even frying pans and large bells in the temples were taken to make weapons, they were left with nothing after the war.

well i don't pay too much attention to Chinese history books,they don't mention much about this at school either.less than we should know.

i dislike them mostly for what is happening right now.my parents and grandparents never taught me to hate.but all the people,abroad or not,Chinese or Korean,hating one government,it should mean something other than MISUNDERSTANDING.

if its not propaganda, u would be contradicting urself when u say 'not much was taught' and yet 'people hate them'. where or when they begin to hate the japanese? when they are still in their mother's womb? people in my country dont really hate japanese, neither do people in my neighbouring countries, even thou ww2 was often mentioned in history lessons. in fact they are pretty happy when japanese merchants go to their countries to invest or when japanese tourists go sightseeing.

i don't doubt that there are nice japanese.but please give me a freaky break,when you encounter people like this for once or twice you really won't like all of them,whoever they are:

they sell the second class products here,they denied what they did,they act stuck-up here even though they have to sleep in the streets in Tokyo,a japanese soldier in jail wrote his experience in war with disrepspect to chinese people

and my sister and her husband know what it's like to be working in sony.it's hard to like a boss who is late everyday and blaming his Chinese employees for being late.

things are not as simple as u think, there could be numourous reasons. for example, a lot of 'japanese products' or 'foreign products' sold in china were actually manufactured in china, not from japan/foreign countries. then secondly how strict the different govt do their custom checking is another thing. at least i knew some not-so-good japanese products, like defected pc monitors, were delibrately bought in by chinese traders at a lower price and sold at original(or even higher) price to the local chinese. who's to blame when ur own people imported second grade products and try to cheat u? the chinese customs had annouced in an open statement that they seldom recieve clearance request for intel or amd processors, then where the hell chinese got their computer processors? thru smuggling! do u think smuggled goods will be as well protected(in terms of package and handling) as those from proper channel?

let's say even if a japanese company wants to built a factory according to japanese standards in china, and produce similiar products like those made in japan, the chinese side couldnt and wouldnt do it. cos besides lacking the proper infrastructures, trained staff, maintainence etc, they'll refuse to buy the more advanced machineries and rather uses older ones instead in order to cut costs. how could u expect the japanese products produced in mainland to be as good? i have been introducing foreign companies to invest in china and i've see a lot of these. usually the products from local factories can be 80-90% as good as the foreign ones, they get the patent to produce it. there's nothing the foreigner can do, cos the local staff says that's the best they can do. it's either they agree, or they leave.

then the way local staff handling things are terrifying too. in other countries at least they are more careful. those local chinese transportation companies, the staff hurled the monitors, tower cases, cd roms to the ground from the vans/trucks when unloading, cos they thought these were protected by plastic foams inside the carton and the monitors etc will be ok. if u been to zhong guan cun or other major IT mart and look at how they unload their goods, i doubt u'd dare to buy these things.

and how many times did the people here insist we do not hate all japanese?

cliches VS cliches......sigh

i dont know if some of them really mean it. after they say they dont like japanese at all, then they say they dont refer to all of them.

[holyman]

and my sister and her husband know what it's like to be working in sony.it's hard to like a boss who is late everyday and blaming his Chinese employees for being late.

and may i ask what is it like to work in a chinese company? would they give up their position in sony and turn to a chinese company since they have so much dissatisfaction?

[roddy]

when you encounter people like this for once or twice you really won't like all of them,whoever they are:

I like to think that's not true. For example, I hope that if I had the misfortune to meet one or two people using incredibly dubious arguments to make their points from, oooh, say, Guangdong, and let's imagine that they are about 16 years old, I hope I would have the intelligence to realise that this does not mean all Guangdong teenagers do this.

Roddy

PS Children are welcome on this site, as long as they don't act like them.

[holyman]

for those who can read chinese on their browsers, below is from xinhuanet forums...

中国与日本的关系

　

一、双边政治关系

（一）中日邦交正常化时间

1972年9月29日

（二）战后中日关系简要回顾

[四十年代]

1945年8月15日，日本接受波茨坦公告，宣布无条件投降。9月3日，日本向同盟国签署投降书，第二次世界大战结束。

[五十年代]

1951年9月4日，美国在排除我国参加的情况下召开旧金山对日和会，片面通过对日和约，周恩来总理兼外长9月18日发表声明，指出对日和约是“非法的”、“无效的”。9月8日，美日签订安全条约，结成军事同盟。

1952年4月28日，日本政府同台湾当局签订和约。5月5日，周恩来外长发表声明，坚决反对日蒋和约。

1952年6月1日，我贸促会同日本促进中日贸易三团体签订第一次民间贸易协议。

1954年10月30日，李德全、廖承志率红十字会代表团访日，这是我民间代表团首次访日。

1955年4月15日，我渔业协会同日本日中渔业协议会签订民间渔业协定。

1956年4月25日，毛泽东主席发布命令，公布全国人大关于处理在押日本战犯的决定。6月27日，周总理宣布除45人外，全部释放1017名日本战犯。

1957年6月2日，日本首相岸信介访台，支持蒋介石“收复”大陆。7月25日，周总理会见日本记者驳斥岸信介敌视中国的政策。

1958年5月2日，长崎发生日本右翼侮辱我国旗事件。中日贸易因此中断。7月7日，我提出中日关系“政治三原则”：日本政府停止反华言行；停止制造“两个中国”；不再阻挠两国关系正常化。

1959年3月12日，日本社会党书记长浅沼稻次郎在北京发表演讲，指出“美帝国主义是日中两国人民共同的敌人”，翌年10月12日被日本暴徒杀害。

1959年9月20日，周总理同日本前首相石桥湛三签署会谈公报，确认按和平共处五项原则和万隆会议十项原则，改善两国关系，促进人民友好。10月21日，自民党顾问松村谦三访华，支持周总理和石桥湛三的会谈公报。

[六十年代]

1960年8月27日，周总理会见日本贸易界人士，提出我“对日贸易三原则”：政府协定；民间合同；个别照顾。

1962年11月9日，廖承志和高□达之助签署发展民间贸易备忘录。

1964年4月19日，廖、高办事处签署关于互派代表和互设联络事务所的会谈纪要及互换记者的会谈纪要。

[七十年代]

1971年10 月2日，我提出“中日复交三原则”：中华人民共和国是代表中国的唯一合法政府；台湾是中华人民共和国神圣不可分割的一部份；“日蒋和约”是非法的、无效的，必须废除。

1972年9月25日，田中角荣首相访华，29日，中日两国政府发表联合声明，中日实现邦交正常化。

1978年8月12日，《中日和平友好条约》签订。10月22日，邓小平副总理访日，23日，中日交换和平友好条约批准书。

1979年12月5日，大平正芳首相访华，承诺向我提供第一批政府贷款。

[八十年代]

1980年5月27日，华国锋总理访日。这是我国总理首次访日。双方商定于同年召开中日政府成员会议。7月8日，华国锋总理赴日出席大平首相葬礼。

1980年12月3日，首届中日政府成员会议在北京举行。该会议至1987年6月共举行了5次。

1982年5月31日，赵紫阳总理访日，提出“中日关系三原则”：和平友好；平等互利；长期稳定。

1982年6月，日本文部省在审定教科书时篡改侵略中国的历史，引发第一次教科书事件。

1982年9月26日，铃木善幸首相访华，表示日中关系已进入成熟时期，关于教科书问题，日本政府将按照《日中联合声明》的精神负责尽快加以解决。

1983年11月23日，胡耀邦总书记访日，同中曾根康弘首相确认“中日关系四原则”：和平友好、平等互利、长期稳定、相互信赖，并决定设立中日友好二十一世纪委员会。

1984年3月23日，中曾根首相访华，决定向我提供第二批政府贷款。

1984年9月10日，中日友好二十一世纪委员会首次会议在东京召开。该会迄今已召开13次。

1984年9月，三千名日本青年应胡耀邦总书记和中国全青联邀请访华。

1985年4月21日，彭真委员长访日。这是我全国人大常委会委员长首次访日。

1988年8月25日，竹下登首相访华，承诺向我提供第三批政府贷款。

1989年1月7日，裕仁天皇病逝。2月24日，钱其琛外长以杨尚昆主席特使身份出席裕仁天皇葬礼。

1989年4月12日，李鹏总理访日。明仁天皇在会见时谈到中日间不幸历史时，第一次以“表示遗憾”这种表达方式向中国道歉。

1989年7月14日，日本参加西方七国对我制裁：冻结第三批政府贷款，停止高层往来。

[九十年代]

1990年7月11日，海部俊树首相在西方七国首脑会议上宣布将恢复对华政府贷款。

1990年8月27日，樱内义雄众议院议长访华。

1990年11月12日，吴学谦副总理以中国政府代表身份出席明仁天皇即位典礼。

1991年8月10日，海部俊树首相访华。这是“六.四”风波后访华的第一位西方国家现职政府首脑。

1992年4月6日，江泽民总书记访日，邀请日本明仁天皇和皇后访华。

1992年5月25日，万里委员长访日。

1992年10月23日，明仁天皇和皇后访华，这是历史上日本天皇首次访华，填补了中日关系史上的一项空白。

1993年11月19日，江泽民主席在出席西雅图APEC会议期间会见细川护熙首相。

1994年2月23日，朱镕基副总理访日。

1994年3月19日，细川护熙首相访华。两国政府签订环保合作协定。

1994年4月29日，原文兵卫参议院议长访华。

1994年8月27日，土井多贺子众议院议长访华，到天津抗日殉难烈士纪念馆凭吊抗战时在日死难的中国劳工。

1994年9月12日，日本政府不顾我强烈反对和严正交涉，允许台行政院副院长徐立德赴日出席广岛亚运会开幕式，引发中日广岛亚运会风波。

1994年10月28日，荣毅仁副主席访日。这是我国家副主席首次访日。

1994年12月22日，中日两国政府就日向我提供第四批政府贷款（前三年部份）达成协议。

1995年4月10日，乔石委员长访日。

1995年5月2日，村山富市首相访华，作为战后日现职首相首次参观了卢沟桥和中国人民抗战纪念馆。

1995年8月15日，村山首相在战后五十周年之际代表日本政府就历史问题发表谈话，明确表示愿正视历史，承认侵略，对此表示深刻反省和道歉。

1995年8月29日，日本政府抗议我核试验，宣布冻结对我无偿援助。

1995年11月18日，江泽民主席在出席大阪APEC会议期间会见村山富市首相。

1996年7月起，日本右翼团体成员连续四次登上钓鱼岛，引发中日钓鱼岛风波。

1996年7月29日，桥本龙太郎首相参拜靖国神社。

1996年11月24日，江泽民主席在出席马尼拉APEC会议期间会见桥本龙太郎首相。

1997年9月4日，桥本龙太郎首相访华，并作为战后日本第一位现职首相访问我东北地区，参观了“九.一八”纪念馆。

1997年11月11日，李鹏总理访日，提出发展中日关系五原则“相互尊重，互不干涉内政；求同存异，妥善处理分歧；加强对话，增进了解；互惠互利，深化经济合作；面向未来，实现世代友好。同日，中日两国政府签署渔业协定。

1998年4月21日，胡锦涛副主席访日，强调发展中日关系要以史为鉴，面向未来。

1998年11月25日，江泽民主席对日本进行正式访问，这是中国国家元首首次访问日本，双方发表中日联合宣言，宣布两国建立“致力于和平与发展的友好合作夥伴关系”。

1999年7月8日，小渊惠三首相正式访华。

　　1999年12月8日，中共中央政治局常委、全国政协主席李瑞环对日进行正式友好访问。

（三）中日关系近况

中日关系发展总体顺利，双方在各个领域的友好交流与互利合作不断取得进展，给两国带来重要利益，也为本地区和世界的和平、稳定与发展做出了积极贡献。

　　世纪之交，中日关系面临新的发展机遇。近年来中日两国高层互访和接触频繁，特别是1998年底江泽民主席对日本进行了成功的国事访问。双方本着"以史为鉴，面向未来"的精神，认真回顾总结了本世纪中日关系历史的经验教训，宣布建立"致力于和平与发展的友好合作夥伴关系"，并就进一步加强两国在各个领域的合作做出了长远展望和全面规划。1999年7月，日本首相小渊惠三对我国进行了正式访问。双方再次确认了江主席1998年访日时达成的一系列重要政治共识，并就推动两国关系继续健康稳定发展、加强两国务实合作深入交换了意见，进一步明确了今后的合作重点和方向。当前，中日两国政府和各界正积极加紧全面落实两国领导人达成的上述重要共识，开展各领域的友好合作，部份领域已取得阶段性进展。

　　两国关系中也存在一些值得重视的问题，最主要的有历史问题和台湾问题，随着两国关系的深入发展，一些新的问题和摩擦也不时出现，需恪守《中日联合声明》、《中日和平友好条约》和《中日联合宣言》的原则和精神，加以妥善解决，共同维护中日关系大局。

二、中日经济合作

（一）中日贸易

日本是我国最大贸易夥伴，我国是日本第二大贸易夥伴。据海关统计，1999年中日贸易总额为661.67亿美元，比上年增长14.3％，创历史最高水平。其中，中方出口323.99亿美元，进口337.68亿美元，分别比上年增长9.1％和19.7％。

（二）对华投资

1999年日本对华投资项目总数1136项，协议金额24.89亿美元，实际投入30.03亿美元，分别 比上年下降7.76％和4.89％。

　　截止1999年底，日本对华直接投资累计18738项，协议金额350.32亿美元，实际到位金额249.15亿美元。

（三）日本政府对华资金、技术合作

1、日元贷款

日本向我国提供的政府贷款约占我同国外官方资金合作的40%以上，居首位。自1979年起日本共向我提供四批日元贷款，合计25809亿日元。其中前三批为16109亿日元（79年至95年），第四批日元贷款前三年（96至98年）金额为5800亿日元，项目为40个。1998年11月江主席访日时双方确定第四批对华日元贷款后两年金额为3900亿日元，项目为28个。

第一批日元贷款 （1979 1983年）3309亿日元。

第二批日元贷款（1984 1990年） 4700亿日元。

第三批日元贷款（1990 1995年） 8100亿日元。

第四批日元贷款（1996 2000年） 5800亿日元（1996 1998年）

3900亿日元（1999 2000年）

2、能源贷款

1979年至1995年三批能源贷款合计17000亿日元

第一批能源贷款4200亿日元。

第二批能源贷款5800亿日元。

第三批能源贷款7000亿日元。

3、无偿援助

自1979年至2000年3月，日本政府对我一般无偿援助共计1153.56亿日元。

4、“黑字还流”贷款

1988年和1994年日本进出口银行两次提供“黑字还流”贷款，共计1400亿日元。

三、中日科技交流与合作

中日民间科技交流始于六十年代初期，当时交流的主要形式是主办中日科技座谈，日本工业界技术人员来到中国，专题介绍日本新的使用技术，中日双方技术人员进行讨论。该项交流规模逐年扩大，成为当时我国技术人员了解世界科技发展情况的重要渠道之一，一直延续到七十年代中期。

　　中日邦交正常化以后，1978年日本政府同发展中国家进行科技合作的执行机构--日本国际协力事业团（JICA）开始同我国建立联系。1979年，日本政府派遣科技考察团访华，1980年5月，中日两国政府签订《中日科技合作协定》。

　　当前，中日科技合作已成为双边合作和交往的重要一环，取得了长足发展。中日两国政府间科技合作包括：《中日技术合作协定》，《中日环保合作协定》、通过JICA渠道的技术合作、两国政府对口部门间的合作、《核能合作协定》（包括核安全协议）等5个方面。中日民间科技交流亦发展到相当规模，每年我赴日的科技团组都有近万人次。

四、中日文化交流

新中国成立后，中日两国就开始了民间文化交流，既有文艺演出，艺术和文物展览，也有学术和人员往来。

　　1972年9月中日实现邦交正常化后，随着两国友好关系的发展，两国政府间文化关系开始建立并得到加强。1978年8月12日缔结的《中日和平友好条约》第三条规定，"缔约双方将本着睦邻友好的精神，按照"平等互利和不干涉内政的原则，为进一步发展两国的经济关系和文化关系，促进两国人民的往来和友谊而努力。"1979年12月6日，中国文化部部长黄镇和日本外务大臣大来佐武郎代表两国政府在北京签署了《中华人民共和国政府与日本国政府为促进文化交流的协定》，双方确认发展两国间文化、教育、学术、体育的交流。在双方的共同努力下，两国文化交流与合作获得全面发展，近年来呈现出官民并举和多渠道、多层次、多形式的崭新局面，其范围之广、规模之大、数量之多、活动之频繁，内容之丰富，在世界上所有同中国有文化关系的国家中，都居于领先地位。

在双方的共同努力下，近年来中日两国文化关系发展迅速，呈现出官民并举和多渠道、多层次、多形式的崭新局面。文化交流已遍及音乐、舞蹈、戏剧、电影、绘画、书法、图书馆、博物馆、文物、考古、摄影、曲艺、民俗、文学、群众文化等艺术门类，以及教育、新闻、出版、广播、电视、体育、卫生、科学技术、宗教、建筑等各个领域。两国文化交流与合作获得全面发展，其范围之广、规模之大、数量之多、活动之频繁，内容之丰富，在世界上所有同中国有文化关系的国家中，都居于领先地位。

　　为纪念中华人民共和国成立50周年暨中日文化交流协定签订20周年，我文化部于1999年9月在日本举办了'99东瀛行大型系列文化展演活动，日本驻华使馆在北京举办了"1999中日文化友好年活动"，为增进两国人民理解和友谊发挥积极作用。

五、军事交流与合作

中日两国于1974年互设武官处，70年代末开始军事交流，1989年以前逐步展开，关系发展良好。89年后两国军事交流一度中断。1995年日本参联会主席西元彻也访华，双方军方高层交往得以恢复。

　　1999年中日两军交流续有进展.1999年10月,中日举行第六次安全磋商,双方就地区安全形势和各自的国防政策等问题交换了意见。11月,日本防卫厅事务次官江间清二应邀访华。中央军委副主席、国务委员兼国防部长迟浩田及中央军委委员、中国人民解放军总参谋长傅全有分别会见，副总参谋长熊光楷同其举行了会谈。

六、中日间敏感问题

（一）历史问题

历史问题是中日关系中敏感的政治问题。如何认识和对待日本军国主义侵略中国的历史问题，早在一九七二年中日邦交正常化谈判时就是焦点，在中日联合声明和中日和平友好条约中已明确表述，构成了中日关系的政治基础。中方历来主张“前事不忘，后事之师”，愿意在尊重历史的基础上面向未来，发展两国人民世代友好。但前提是必须正视和承认历史。去年江泽民主席访日时，全面、深入、系统地阐述了中方原则立场。日方首次承认对中国的侵略并表示深刻反省和道歉，并与中方共同确认正确认识和对待历史是发展中日关系的重要基础。另一方面，日本极少数右翼势力否定、美化侵略历史的活动仍时有发生，对中日关系形成干扰。我对此及时进行了必要斗争，并敦促日本政府以实际行动履行在历史问题上的表态和承诺，对极少数右翼分子严加约束，以正确的历史观教育国民。今年7月小渊首相访华期间，中日双方对去年就历史问题取得的共识再次加以确认，日方并表示愿在此基础上正视历史，共创未来，以实际行动继续为和平做贡献。

(二)台湾问题

台湾问题涉及中日关系的政治基础。二次大战后，根据《开罗宣言》和《波茨坦公告》，日本将台湾及澎湖列岛等归还中国。当时的中国政府曾派员于1945年10月25日在台北接受日方投降并向全世界宣告收复台湾。此后，日在追随美国承认台蒋的同时，实际上一直把"台湾归属未定论"作为对华政策的一项基本原则。1972年，在"尼克松冲击"和日国内强大压力下，田中角荣、大平正芳等日本政治家顺应民心，加速了中日邦交正常化的进程。田中内阁明确表示充份理解我提出的复交三原则，即中华人民共和国是代表中国的唯一合法政府；台湾是中华人民共和国领土不可分割的一部份；"日蒋和约"是非法的、无效的，必须废除。经过反复谈判，1972年9月29日签署的《中日联合声明》第三条载明，"中华人民共和国政府重申：台湾是中华人民共和国领土不可分割的一部份。日本政府充份理解和尊重中国政府的这一立场，并坚持遵循《波茨坦公告》第八条的立场"。上述表明，中日两国之间围绕台湾地位问题已通过邦交正常化从政治上得到了结，双方就日台关系的性质和处理原则达成谅解。

　　中方关于日台关系的立场是明确的，即对日台开展民间往来不持异议，但坚决反对进行任何形式的官方往来，搞"两个中国"或"一中一台"。

　　1998年底江主席访日时全面阐述了我对台湾问题及日台关系问题的原则立场,日方再次作出重要承诺。小渊首相访华期间进一步表示，日方将切实遵循在《日中联合声明》中阐明的立场，并坚持遵循《波茨坦公告》第八条。日本不会也不可能参与支持台独。中国只有一个，海峡两岸的问题应由中国人自己通过对话和平解决。

　　近一段时期以来，日本国内极少数人正加紧策划在台湾"总统"大选后邀请李登辉访日，我正严密关注有关动向，并通过各种渠道多次向日方提出交涉，强调李登辉不论以什么形式和名义访日，中国政府和人民都将坚决反对。如李登辉阴谋得逞，将从根本上破坏中日关系。敦促日本政府严格遵循《中日联合声明》、《中日和平友好条约》和《中日联合宣言》的原则精神，妥善处理好这一问题，维护中日关系大局。

（三）钓鱼岛问题

　　钓鱼诸岛位于中国台湾省基隆市东北约92海里的东海海域，是台湾省的附属岛屿，主要由钓鱼岛、黄尾屿、赤尾屿、南小岛和北小岛及一些礁石组成。

　　钓鱼诸岛自古以来就是中国的领土，它和台湾一样是中国领土不可分割的一部份。中国对钓鱼诸岛及其附近海域拥有无可争辩的主权。我国的这一立场有充份的历史和法律依据。

　　早在明朝初期，钓鱼诸岛就已明确为中国领土，明、清两朝均将钓鱼诸岛划为我国海防管辖范围之内，并非"无主地"。1895年日本趁甲午战争清政府败局已定，在《马关条约》签订前三个月窃取这些岛屿，划归冲绳县管辖。1943年12月中、美、英发表的《开罗宣言》规定，日本将所窃取于中国的包括东北、台湾、澎湖列岛等在内的土地归还中国。1945年的《波茨坦公告》规定："开罗宣言之条件必将实施"。同年8月，日本接受《波茨坦公告》宣布无条件投降，这就意味着日本将台湾、包括其附属的钓鱼诸岛归还中国。但1951年9月8日，日本却同美国签订了片面的《旧金山和约》，将钓鱼诸岛连同日本冲绳交由美国托管。对此，周恩来总理兼外长代表中国政府郑重声明，指出旧金山和约是没有中华人民共和国参加的对日单独和约，不仅不是全面的和约，而且完全不是真正的和约。中国政府认为是非法的，无效的，因而是绝对不能承认的。1971年6月17日，日美签订"归还冲绳协定"时，这些岛屿也被划入"归还区域"，交给日本。对此，我国外交部于1971年12月30日发表声明，强烈谴责美日两国政府公然把我钓鱼诸岛划入"归还领域"，严正指出"这是对中国领土主权明目张胆的侵犯。中国人民绝对不能容忍。""美日两国在'归还'冲绳协定中，把我国钓鱼岛等岛屿列入'归还区域'，完全是非法的，这丝毫不能改变中华人民共和国对钓鱼岛等岛屿的领土主权"。其后，美国国务院发言人表示，"归还冲绳的施政权，对尖阁列岛（即我钓鱼岛）的主权问题不发生任何影响"。

　　鉴于日方在钓鱼岛问题上有不同主张，我国政府从发展中日关系出发，在坚持我一贯立场的前提下，与日方达成了此问题留待以后解决，不采取单方面行动，避免这一问题干扰两国关系大局的谅解。

　　近年来，日右翼分子在钓鱼岛问题上不断制造事端。我均通过外交途径向日方提出了严正交涉， 日方表示日本政府的基本立场是既不参与，更不支持右翼团体的行为，右翼的行为有害日中关系发展，也背离了日政府立场。

（四）日美安全合作问题

1996年日美发表“安全合作共同宣言”，并据此开始修改1978年制订的“防卫合作指针”。1997年9月，日美正式确定防卫合作新指针。今年5月24日，日本国会审议通过新日美防卫合作指针相关法案，标志日美强化安全合作的新体制基本就位。对此，我关注焦点一是其涉台问题，二是日本的军事走向。我迄今通过各种渠道多次表明了我严重关切和有关立场。

今年7月，小渊首相访华期间向我重申并表示日美安保体制完全是防御性的，不针对任何特定国家或地区。日美新防卫合作指针相关法案不会超出日美安保条约的目的和范围。法案明确规定自卫队的活动需经国会批准，对外不得行使武力或以武力相威胁。对于是否发生“周边事态”以及应采取什么措施，日方将从确保自身国益出发，自主做出判断，同时认为同中国保持友好关系是日本的重要国益。日本基于对过去历史的反省，将坚持在和平宪法下走和平国家的道路。坚持“专守防卫”政策，遵守无核三原则，坚持不做军事大国。我强调，台湾是中国领土不可分割的一部份，任何直接或间接把台湾纳入日美安全合作范围的作法都是中国政府和人民坚决反对和不能接受的。日方应以实际行动体现迄今的郑重承诺，并以令人信服的方式消除包括中国在内的亚洲邻国对日本未来军事走向的疑虑和不安。

（五）战争赔偿问题

日本过去的侵华战争给中国人民造成了深重灾难，国家和人民都蒙受了巨大损失。“前事不忘，后事之师”。我们应牢记这段惨痛的历史。但同时应该看到，发动这场战争的责任主要是少数军国主义分子，广大日本人民也是战争受害者。我们党和政府历来主张把少数军国主义分子与广大人民区分开来。日本政府在1972年中日邦交正常化谈判时，明确表示痛感过去由于战争给中国人民造成的重大责任并对此深刻反省。在此前提下，我国政府决定放弃对日本的战争赔偿要求，并载入1972年中日两国签署的《中日联合声明》。1978年，五届全国人大常委会第三次会议批准的《中日和平友好条约》再次以法律文件的形式确认了放弃对日战争赔偿要求的决定。我国政府在战争赔偿问题上的立场是明确和一贯的，即坚持《中日联合声明》中表明的放弃对日战争赔偿要求的立场，并继续履行《中日和平友好条约》所承担的国际条约的义务。但同时对日本侵华战争遗留下来的现实问题，如日本遗弃在我国的化学武器、强征我国妇女充当侵华日军“慰安妇”及强征劳工等问题，我国政府始终从维护我正当权益、保护人民群众利益出发，要求日本方面认真对待，妥善处理。

（六）关于日本遗弃在华化学武器问题

　　日本遗弃在华化学武器是日本军国主义侵华战争期间犯下的严重罪行之一，也是中日间亟待解决的现实问题。在侵华战争期间，日军公然违反国际公约，使用化学武器，造成大量中国军民中毒伤亡。日军战败时为掩盖罪行，毁灭证据，将大量化武就近掩埋、遗弃。到目前为止，在中国十几个省市自治区三十余处发现了日本遗弃化武。由于这些遗弃化武已经过半个多世纪的风雨侵蚀，锈蚀严重，有的已发生泄漏，对中国人民的生命财产安全和生态环境等造成了严重危害。

　　为解决这一问题，自1989年至今，我同日方举行了4次政府谈判及4次专家磋商。1997年，双方成立联合工作组，迄今举行了4次工作组会议。在我推动下，日方对遗弃在华化武进行了15次现场调查。经过多次谈判和联合调查，日方承认在华遗弃了大量化武，表示充份认识到遗弃化武问题的严重性和紧迫性，并对这一问题至今仍对中国人民造成损害感到痛心。1999年7月30日，中日两国政府签署《中华人民共和国政府和日本国政府关于销毁中国境内日本遗弃化学武器的备忘录》，日方承诺将根据《中日联合声明》、《中日和平友好条约》、《禁止化武公约》的原则精神及《备忘录》的有关规定尽快解决这一问题。中方已在外交部成立"处理日本遗弃在华化武问题办公室"，负责归口管理此项工作。

（七）光华寮问题

光华寮位于日本京都市，原为日京都大学在第二次世界大战期间为中国留学生租赁的学生宿舍，地上五层，地下一层，建筑面积2130平方米。1950年5月，台湾当局驻日代表团用变卖侵华日军掠夺物资的公款买下该房产，1952年12月台"驻日使馆"同原房主签订买卖合同并于1961年6月以"中华民国"名义进行了房产登记。1967年台"驻日大使"陈之迈向京都地方法院起诉，要求爱国华侨退出。但该房产自日本战败后一直由我爱国华侨和留学生管理和使用，台湾方面从未参与。中日邦交正常化以后，我驻日使馆和驻大阪总领馆对该寮一直给予经常性的监督指导，中国政府还拨专款对光华寮予以修缮，作为我留日学生的宿舍加以使用。

　　1977年9月京都地方法院判决，驳回原告起诉，认定由于中日邦交正常化，光华寮所有权归属中华人民共和国；但同时称原告具有"当事者能力"。台湾当局于同年10月以"中华民国"名义上诉至大阪高等法院。1982年4月，大阪高等法院裁判，称台湾当局为"被承认的事实上的政府"，决定受理"中华民国"的上诉并将此案退回到京都地方法院重审。1986年2月，京都地方法院重新判决，沿用了大阪高等法院的主要论据，判定我爱国华侨方面败诉。1987年2月大阪高等法院二审判决，维持原判。华侨方面于1987年3月向日本最高法院提出上诉。

　　自1974年至今，我多次向日方提出交涉，强调光华寮是中国的国有财产，中日邦交正常化后理应归中华人民共和国所有，要求日方协助变更光华寮登记名义。同时指出，光华寮问题不是一般的民事诉讼，而是事关中国政府合法权益，涉及中日两国关系基本原则的政治案件。这个问题的实质是以司法裁判的形式公开制造"两个中国"，违反了《中日联合声明》、《中日和平友好条约》，突破了两国政府关于日台关系只能维持民间和地方性往来的谅解。大阪高等法院的判决不仅在政治上是错误的，而且在法理上也是站不住脚的，在政府承认的法律效力、国家继承与政府继承的区别以及财产的性质区分等许多问题上违反了国际法准则，也与日本宪法的有关内容不符。目前该案仍在日最高法院审理。我对此保持密切关注。

七、中日间重要双边文件

（一）中日联合声明（1972年9月29日）

中华人民共和国政府和日本国政府联合声明

（二）中日和平友好条约（1978年8月12日）

中华人民共和国和日本国和平友好条约

(三)中日联合宣言

[Disenchant]

Holyman, I think I read in this thread someone mentioning that you were American. If so, I'm guessing you're an ABC, right?

[holyman]

does it matter whether i'm one or not?

[Jack MacKelly]

I think China should forgive Japan, that history is long gone. China should try to have a strong relationship with its neighbours, and build cultural ties and strenghten trade. However there are still many obstacles.

Some people still have a negative image of China , but the Chinese nation today is not like the one which Mao ruled under a harsh rulership

Japan is a much different place, and not the Japan of 1930 or 1940

What does bother me however are the racial purity groups in Japan or the ultra nationalists, there are a few members of the Japanese government who go to pray at Shrines where A class war criminals have been enshrined, and then there is the xenophobic Tokyo governor and the Kanagawa mayor who call foreign people sneaky crooks, called the Chinese animals and make terrible remarks about Korean people.

These people are terrible and a throw back to the days of nazi thinking and the imperial Empire. If places like Japan were to weed out these racist political leaders and ultra nationalist mayors, it would help Asia a lot.

[39degN]

What does bother me however are the racial purity groups in Japan or the ultra nationalists, there are a few members of the Japanese governmnet who go to pray at Shrines where A class war criminals have been enshrined, and then there is the xenophobic Tokyo governor and the Kanagawa mayor who call foreign people sneaky crooks, called the Chinese animals and make terrible remarks about Korean people.

you dont have to bother for this, the people you've mentioned are real animals for sure.

[Quest]

and then there is the xenophobic Tokyo governor and the Kanagawa mayor who call foreign people sneaky crooks, called the Chinese animals and make terrible remarks about Korean people.

I suppose these people were elected.... so much for a modern civilized democratic society. I doubt Beijing mayors dare to say such things.