Traditional Chinese Medicine

[williamlien]

Hey everyone

Yesterday my Chinese girlfriend asked me to saw a traditional Chinese doctor with her because she sprained her ankle. When she got tradition Chinese treatment, I saw masseur kneaded her ankle and foot. She got hurt but very useful. After his massage and used their self-made pain patch in just a few days, the swelling has gone down.

I'm very curious about this amazing tradition Chinese medicine differ a lot from our western medicine. Could anyone give me some introduction about this fantastic medicine?

Any pointers would be lovely!

Thank you very much

[rezaf]

Maybe that guy used tuina(Chinese massage) on your gf. TCM includes tuina, acupuncture and herbs. Chinese herbs are the main body of this medicine and tuina and acupuncture are mostly used for problems like what your gf has. TCM is based on a complicated philosophy of the balance between yin and yang and also 5 elements(wood,fire,earth,metal,water) in our bodies. There are 12 main channels of energy in our bodies and some other channels which are partly inside our bodies connecting our internal organs and partly close to our skin. Tuina and acupuncture doctors manipulate the flow of qi(some kind of energy) in these channels by using needles and pressure on the parts of the channels close to the skin and as a result resolve the obstruction or other problems in those channels.

[natra]

Maybe the swelling would have gone down in a few days regardless of whether she received treatment.

[trien27]

I saw masseur kneaded her ankle and foot. She got hurt but very useful. After his massage and used their self-made pain patch in just a few days, the swelling has gone down.

The method he used is called "reflexology", that's why it "hurts". Tuina would not "hurt". Maybe a combination of tuina & reflexology was used?

The patch contains Chinese herbs, where different herbs helps with reviving different parts of the body to its normal state.

Besides, massage & herbs, sometimes 药酒* & certain herbal oils are also used in combination with the above methods. If you go to an acupuncturist: moxibustion & cupping would be used besides insertion of needles to stimulate blood flow, plus maybe even 刮痧.**

Maybe the swelling would have gone down in a few days regardless of whether she received treatment.

If that was the case, there would be no need for them to go see the Chinese doctor.

In the past, when I felt sick, my parents would take me to the Chinese doctor [someone who practices Traditional Chinese Medicine], but now we all go see a Western doctor [someone who practices Western medicine], due to everything being expensive [especially if you don't have medical insurance] and seeing a Chinese doctor might seem exorbitant these days.

I also used those patches. They do work, so I don't have to take time off work just to go see the doctor and wasting a day at the doctor's office.

Source:

*药酒 in English, 药酒 translation, 药酒 Chinese English dictionary

**刮痧 in English, 刮痧 translation, 刮痧 Chinese English dictionary

Edited April 20, 2010 at 01:58 AM by trien27

[rezaf]

We don't know about this treatment but if you mean that TCM is fake then I should remind you that now a lot of universities are doing research about it and it is heavily supported by academic evidence. As for how it works there are also some researches being done but our knowledge might not be enough. A system of medicine that has been accumulated for thousands of years and has been tested and refined for that long can not be denyed easily.

[asazuki]

Actually TCM use the Meridian Lines to cure pain or injury on your body, like this: (pic 1)

then, you take the prescription that helps you get better.(pic 2.3)

there are many ways of treatment, especially Acupuncture treatment!!! It's amazing!!!(pic 4)

[rezaf]

BTW tuina includes the kind of reflexology that you see in zuliao.

[dale2001922]

It seems very painful during the treatment. However,it is a better way to make your body recover without taking western medicine.

I have tried to do massage therapy after I stand to work for eight hours. It was really painful during the treatment.However,after that,I immediately felt relaxed and comfortable.

[outcast]

Traditional Chinese Medicine is pure psuedoscience, based on primitive superstitious nonsense.

[trien27]

Traditional Chinese Medicine is pure psuedoscience, based on primitive superstitious nonsense.

Really? If so, how come so many who didn't believe in it before all of a sudden have so much interest in it? Pseudoscience? Prove that it is.

It is not pseudoscience if it works, right?! It has been practiced in Asia for several millennia, and yet the Western doctor depends on the medicine to treat a certain part of the body at a time instead of treating it as a group as TCM is.

Are you suggesting that Asian doctors have been in a trance while Western doctors aren't dependent on drugs in order to be healed?! I totally believe none of it is true.

Edited May 1, 2010 at 04:54 AM by trien27
spelling error

[chrix]

Really? If so, how come so many who didn't believe in it before all of a sudden have so much interest in it? Pseudoscience? Prove that it is.

I really want to stay out of this discussion, but I would like to point out that you used the word "believe". If it's science, you don't just believe in it, you have scientific evidence to back it up...

I also think the burden of proof would lie on the side of TCM that indeed it is scientifically valid (like the debate about homeopathy). I haven't concerned myself too much with the subject, but there should be studies on this, I don't know if they conclusively prove that TCM goes beyond the placebo effect. Maybe someone else knows...

[rezaf]

Chinese medicine is based on a more advanced (in some parts) form of science than What we have learned in high school, but I think first of all we should define what science is. To people like outcast who think that the current science has discovered the way everything works in this universe I should say our knowledge about fundamental particles is very limited and most of it is just a bunch of probabilities derived from our observations from their side-effects. In other words we can only say that we believe in what the so called science tell us and until we discover all the fundamental particles and how they work(which means learning everything about this universe) we won't be able to say we know anything for sure. There has been a lot of research on TCM which proves it's efficiency and for your information there has been research about placebo effect and TCM. As for how it works the research is going on. The current science can only give us some insights into how the meridians work and there are many interesting things that have been observed about people who practise qigong but there is still a long way to go.

[woliveri]

Traditional Chinese Medicine is pure psuedoscience, based on primitive superstitious nonsense.

Western medicine is all about how much drugs doctors can "sell" their patients to "control" their condition and never really seek to cure the root cause.

Really, anyone doubting TCM need only apply moxibustion at ZuSanLi (ST-36) for several minutes and see the reaction. Apply it every morning for a week and see how you feel.

[trien27]

I don't know if they conclusively prove that TCM goes beyond the placebo effect.

It has been known that TCM is used to treat colds, asthma, and now in some Western practices, instead of using anaesthesia, they used needles of Chinese acupuncturists, plus some might use a combined form of electrotherapy with acupuncture needles by either connecting the needles to electrodes or directly connecting the electric equipment to the needles called "Electroacupuncture".

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroacupuncture

[chrix]

You should actually read the websites you cite:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroacupuncture#Scientific_research

The conclusion according to Wikipedia is that it can't be conclusively proven if this method is really effective in a sense of clinical relevance or not (again, the placebo test).

[rezaf]

I'm not sure but I think because the whole TCM thing is new to the west, there hasn't been enough research done on it. I think if you guys are interested you should read Chinese research articles.

[outcast]

and now in some Western practices, instead of using anaesthesia, they used needles of Chinese acupuncturists,

Total BS. It has never been proven to do that in any properly blinded study.

Here's something worth reading about it, written by a Yale neuroscientist

I think if you guys are interested you should read Chinese research articles

Which are almost never done properly. I've seen some of them and usually they are only conducted on so few subjects that it is meaningless and they are not blinded (so everyone knows what everyone else is doing, which skews the results). I'm not impressed.

Western medicine is all about how much drugs doctors can "sell" their patients to "control" their condition and never really seek to cure the root cause.

Why don't you go back to bloodletting while you're at it? The humoral theory is the closest western equivilient of TCM.

Instead of wasting money and time with this Dark Age BS, we should be focusing on using science (you know, western medicine) to cure very real health problems. Where is the TCM magic cure for cancer?

[rezaf]

Outcast, you are ready to deny everything, which is not scientific at all. The current science has a long way to go to catch up with (in some parts) the more advanced science that ancient people used. The construction of this world including us is more complicated that what you know. If you are in Shanghai maybe I can teach you and show you some of the stuff that I know to convince you. There are new doors that are opened to science everyday and a true scientist would not simply deny the things that are unknown to him without enough proof which I guess you don't have. A true scientist would simply say "I don't know".

[woliveri]

Instead of wasting money and time with this Dark Age BS, we should be focusing on using science (you know, western medicine) to cure very real health problems. Where is the TCM magic cure for cancer?

Why don't you take a look at the curriculum at Shanghai TCM College in Pudong? You will see that the foundation classes are dosed heavily in Western Science. Why? Because they are looking for the best way to help the patient, not just a head in the sand, western only, give them drugs or surgery approach.

We love to see pharmaceutical companies who keep a hugh presence of lobbyists in the US so they can protect their cash cow, the US patient. Follow the money trail. It's quite easy.

[Kenny同志]

We don't know much about our body. There would be far less people suffering from incurable diseases if we do. Let alone the universe. The so-called science is not everything. TCM works and the facts are there. Prescriptions of an experienced TCM practitioner work for seven or eight, if not more, out of every ten cases. Is this all luck? Show me. I have knee synovitis and western medicine can do nothing about it except surgery which is VERY likely to impair the function of the knees. However my TCM doctor had successfully brought it under control for two years, for which I am very grateful. What science should to is to understand TCM rather than simply deny it.