roddy Posted November 16, 2004 at 12:31 AM Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 at 12:31 AM here on danwei.org. The actual piece is written by David Moser, who many of you will remember from here I've only had a chance to skim over it, but reads very well. It is ironic that China, with the world’s largest population, also wastes more human resources than any country on earth. An entire generation of talent was effectively lost during the Cultural Revolution. And it could be argued that, since 1949, China has metaphorically shackled and silenced all its Lenny Bruces, Mort Sahls, Richard Pryors, Dick Gregorys, Eddie Murphys and Margaret Chos. Of course, all cultures are different, and such potential Chinese comedic geniuses would have undoubtedly produced standup comedy with “Chinese characteristics”. The pity is that we will never know what that comedy might have been like. Roddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wushijiao Posted November 17, 2004 at 03:20 AM Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 at 03:20 AM This was a really interesting article. Without mentioning the thesis of the article, I asked my Chinese girlfriend if she thought crosstalk was in decline. She said yes. I asked why. She replied, "Cause the Party always cuts out the funny stuff for TV". I think his most important point is that because life is so politicized, performers aren't able to use great, home-grown Chinese material. This makes Hong Kong comedies and foreign movies seem more cutting edge than they should be, and it retards the Chiense sense of humor by not providing a mass outlet for the Chris Rocks, Dave Chappels, SNLs and others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
confucius Posted November 18, 2004 at 04:38 PM Report Share Posted November 18, 2004 at 04:38 PM I also read the Danwei.org David Moser article on crosstalk's apparent decline. I tend to disagree with some of his views, such as the Chinese general public having a craving for bawdy humor. Whenever he mentions examples of Western comedians it appears to me that those names (Chris Rock, Richard Pryor, Margaret Cho) are famous for using foul words in their routines. Bill Cosby and Jerry Seinfeld can do brilliant stand-up humor that does not utilize vulgar language and isn't about breasts and genitals, yet this is precisely what Moser believes is missing from China's current generation of crosstalk performers. What he refers to as "cutting edge" is what I call "bathroom humor" Moser also fails to mention the impressive new phenomena of foreign cross-talk performers in China. How can anybody write a long essay about the current state of affairs regarding crosstalk in China and not once mention the name of Canadian cross talk performer Da Shan? There are several foreign apprentices in China doing well in learning the cross-talk craft and they could hopefully inject some of the creative humor that Moser says is missing; such as expanding on the old Tiananmen flea market bit or making new material about foreign misconceptions of China. (Plenty of amusing untapped topics abound!) I also don't think China's television is as tightly censored as Moser claims it is. Perhaps the fear of being reprimanded is truly unfounded. There has already been groundbreaking TV comedies that touched on modern social issues beginning with "Stories From The Editor's Desk" in the late 80's and early 90's. I do agree with Moser that you simply don't see as much crosstalk as was on TV nearly 15-20 years ago. I see the same old performances constantly being recycled on obscure cable channels that mix karaoke songs with crosstalk sketches. I haven't thought about live crosstalk venues in Beijing and did not know that there are teahouses in Tianjin that have regular performances. Overall I thought it was a good article and certainly interesting to read the old sketches that are no longer performed. The coffins joke certainly begs for censorship in a population-controlled country where "baby coffins" are not likely a laughing matter. In fact I did not think any of the old jokes he chose for his article were particularly funny, but Chinese humor seldom translates into foreign laughter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSkillet Posted November 18, 2004 at 06:34 PM Report Share Posted November 18, 2004 at 06:34 PM Why is Margeret Cho held as an example of American humor? Shouldn't a comedienne be funny first, before being used as an example of humor? (Sorry, personal editorializing) I did notice that Hong Kong comedies tend to be more slapstick and silly than any other sort of humor (there's a lot fewer "Office Space" or "Swingers" or "Clerks" type of humor and a lot more Jim Carrey) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wushijiao Posted November 21, 2004 at 01:00 AM Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 at 01:00 AM Whenever he mentions examples of Western comedians it appears to me that those names (Chris Rock, Richard Pryor, Margaret Cho) are famous for using foul words in their routines. Bill Cosby and Jerry Seinfeld can do brilliant stand-up humor that does not utilize vulgar language and isn't about breasts and genitals Well, I don't exactly find Margaret Cho funny. Maybe I just don't get in because I'm not an Asian American. But as far as Chris Rock and Richard Pryor, I think they are perfect examples of what he's talking about. Why? Well, the one area of American life that is as politicized (or was) as China's, to the point where you can't usually have a free and open conversation about your true opinions, is about race. Likewise, it's a tremendously important subject which needs to be disscussed. I think Richard Pryor, Chris Rock, Dave Chappel, among others, provide an outlet for an open exchange of ideas and allow us the space to think. In a society that runs on hollow lies, the court jester is always funny because he tells the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arreke Posted April 28, 2015 at 05:52 AM Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 at 05:52 AM Are there any good Chinese standup comedians like George Carlin ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymoose Posted April 28, 2015 at 06:40 AM Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 at 06:40 AM I have no idea about George Carlin, but 周立波 is quite popular (or was a couple of years ago). Much of his stuff is in Shanghainese though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arreke Posted April 28, 2015 at 08:35 AM Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 at 08:35 AM I have no idea about George Carlin What do you mean you have no idea about him? Isn't he one of the most famous standup comedians? Well, at least, that's what I thought about him )) 周立波 is quite popular (or was a couple of years ago). I wonder if 相声 is worth watching, because from what I can see, my classmates never whatch crosstalk, they whatch comedy shows like 非诚勿扰 instead, which are halerious, but not deep and interesting as George Carlin shows for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymoose Posted April 28, 2015 at 09:47 AM Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 at 09:47 AM Maybe if you're ensconced in the world of America, but there's another world beyond the horizon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demonic_Duck Posted April 28, 2015 at 10:26 AM Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 at 10:26 AM Thinking 非诚勿扰 is not particularly deep or interesting means you're "ensconced in the world of America"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renzhe Posted April 28, 2015 at 12:24 PM Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 at 12:24 PM George Carlin is really one of the all-time greats. I highly recommend checking out his later material, when he got old and grumpy. My all-time favourite. But he represents exactly the type of societal critique and taboo-breaking that does not seem to thrive on CCTV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymoose Posted April 28, 2015 at 12:41 PM Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 at 12:41 PM Nope. But assuming everyone the world over is familiar with George Carlin does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted April 28, 2015 at 12:48 PM Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 at 12:48 PM In an alternative reality: "Are there any good Chinese standup comedians like George Carlin ?" "Not sure, who's George Carlin?" "Oh wow, it never occured to me that somebody wouldn't know who George Carlin is. He's quite ______ and is known for talking about _____ and _____." "Oh, that sounds like _____" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demonic_Duck Posted April 28, 2015 at 01:46 PM Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 at 01:46 PM He's dead, but I'll give it a shot. He was quite outspoken and was known for talking about politics in a strongly anti-establishment way and breaking taboos. Oh, that sounds like something you're not likely to hear in China. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelina Posted April 28, 2015 at 01:51 PM Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 at 01:51 PM Since this thread is more than ten years old I think his most important point is that because life is so politicized, performers aren't able to use great, home-grown Chinese material. This makes Hong Kong comedies and foreign movies seem more cutting edge than they should be, and it retards the Chinese sense of humor by not providing a mass outlet for the Chris Rocks, Dave Chappels, SNLs and others. We can officially declare the death of HK comedy. Look what happened to no other than Stephen Chow. I am not sure if he was ever anti-establishment, but he was the face of HK comedy. http://en.people.cn/90785/8108882.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelina Posted April 28, 2015 at 02:03 PM Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 at 02:03 PM When I think about it, he is not a member of the CCP. Is he free though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
querido Posted April 28, 2015 at 02:21 PM Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 at 02:21 PM It said he hasn't made his proposal yet, hasn't himself spoken yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelina Posted April 28, 2015 at 02:44 PM Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 at 02:44 PM Chow also said he needs time to prepare before he makes a proposal."My proposal is related to the culture and film industries," he said. No censorship? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
querido Posted April 29, 2015 at 01:19 PM Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 at 01:19 PM I'm wondering what you think happened to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelina Posted April 29, 2015 at 02:57 PM Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 at 02:57 PM I don't know. He should try to advocate for no censorship. How can humour exist when you censor it out? The only funny thing is the situation as a whole, when the most famous HK comedian is part of a government that censors all comedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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