HashiriKata Posted January 11, 2005 at 11:28 AM Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 at 11:28 AM I agree with what has been said so far but wonder if we've been a little too cautious and focusing too narrowly on a particular use of “好得很”. I think the use of 好得很 in the following sentence sounds quite normal: 他运气好得很，刚到车站，车就来了。 I've also seen sentences such as: 天气冷得很。 这个人的性情怪得很，不跟人说话。 So, would it be correct to say that the pattern "Adj+得很" is an emphatic way of saying "很+Adj", and that the self-mocking, sarcastic use of “好得很” is only a special case? As I don't really speak Chinese, I hope someone will point out if I'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackadder Posted January 11, 2005 at 06:07 PM Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 at 06:07 PM still, there is no serious problem using any form of Adj+得很, but again, if there is a best one, why not bothered the least best one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunku Posted January 12, 2005 at 06:04 AM Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 at 06:04 AM Well, in most languages there are many ways of saying the same thing. If you use a variety of different ways to express yourself, your language becomes more colorful and interesting. You are not limited to the only saying things one way all the time. For example, how many ways can we think of to say its really cold? 很冷 冷得很! 非常冷! 冷死了! 冷得不行! (I like this one particularly, and use this structure all the time). And the list could go on ... All have different literal translations, but express, basically, the same idea -- that it is really really cold! Why use different, even unusual (but not incorrect), ways of saying the same thing? Because we can! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted January 12, 2005 at 06:06 AM Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 at 06:06 AM I agree with Tsunku. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashiriKata Posted January 12, 2005 at 08:23 AM Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 at 08:23 AM 冷得不行! (I like this one particularly, and use this structure all the time). And the list could go on ... 冷得不得了！ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IVYtony Posted January 12, 2005 at 08:45 AM Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 at 08:45 AM I would say 好得很 is kind of like dialect, which means it is preferred by some people in Northwestern part of China, such as Xi'an, Tai yuan, etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djwebb2004 Posted January 14, 2005 at 09:04 PM Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 at 09:04 PM …得很 is not bad Chinese! It is word #140 in the A list of HSK words! Blackadder, you ask whether you could convince us that it is bad Chinese by saying you are Chinese. The answer is no!!! The 现代汉语词典 2002 edition, which has English translations for every entry, gives 好得很as an example of how to use the word 好 ! I am not being argumentative, but no, even if you said you were Chinese, this phrase is in the dictionary, and this dictionary is the national standard! 好得很 is good Chinese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IVYtony Posted January 16, 2005 at 07:23 AM Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 at 07:23 AM it depends on the context. the Chinese dictionary also always embodies some dialects words. People in different regions have different ways of speaking. “好得很”may sound weird when talking to people who do not belong to that group of "好的很” speakers. weird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djwebb2004 Posted January 16, 2005 at 02:10 PM Report Share Posted January 16, 2005 at 02:10 PM Er, no! Dialect words in the Xiandai Hanyu Cidian are marked as such. If it were dialect, it wouldn't appear as the 140th of the 8,822 words words to learn for the HSK!! It is nice of you to try to find a "middle" way, and say "oh, maybe it is dialect" or "maybe it is only in some contexts", but the answer to the question of whether it is good Chinese or not does not depend on some kind of "smoothing over" of a disputed question. It is not a question that has 2 right answers, so that you can say, as if to a bunch of children, "you are all right in a way". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackadder Posted January 17, 2005 at 06:59 PM Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 at 06:59 PM …得很 is not bad Chinese! It is word #140 in the A list of HSK words! Blackadder, you ask whether you could convince us that it is bad Chinese by saying you are Chinese. The answer is no!!! The 现代汉语词典 2002 edition, which has English translations for every entry, gives 好得很as an example of how to use the word 好 ! I am not being argumentative, but no, even if you said you were Chinese, this phrase is in the dictionary, and this dictionary is the national standard! is good Chinese. Haha... Typical English. why cannot you be more flexible!?... Dictionaries give you all the possibilities to use the lanuage, and now we are talking about which one is the BESTEST amongst others. eg, why don't you use 伊instead of she or her? it is in the dictionary!!! because that is old-fashioned, that is something we don't use very often nowadays... same thing here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djwebb2004 Posted January 17, 2005 at 09:43 PM Report Share Posted January 17, 2005 at 09:43 PM Blackadder, I know it is galling to be wrong - but you'll get over it. ...de hen is not archaic. It is one of the 1033 words in the jia or A list of HSK words. In other words it is one of the top 1,033 words that a foreign learner needs to learn. But you'll get over it!! By the way, I spent years as an English language subeditor, so I am very well aware that 90% of native speakers of English haven't got a clue about English grammar, including most university graduates. I have discovered many supposedly educated English with, shall we say, "lacunae" in their knowledge of their mother tongue. So if you are Chinese and have a "lacuna", don't worry. You are in good company!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunku Posted January 18, 2005 at 07:16 AM Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 at 07:16 AM I gotta say ... if this phrase is high on the list of words to learn for the HSK (which is a test of modern Chinese, compiled by Chinese people, presumably experts on the language), then there is no way it can be called bad Chinese, or dialect, etc. Perhaps in your neck of the woods, it isn't used as frequently, but that doesn't make it wrong. For an English example, take the phrase "haven't got." In American English, we are much more likely to say "don't have." In fact, the phrase "haven't got" might even sound a little bit ... wrong (!) to an American English speaker. "I haven't got a car" vs. "I don't have a car" -- Americans, which sounds more natural? And yet, my English students learn the phrase "haven't got," and yes, it is correct English. I would be out of line if I told my students that just because we, in my place, don't say it that way that often, that makes it wrong. Being a native speaker doesn't automatically make you an expert (and I'm not picking on anyone here, the exact same applies to those of us working as English teachers in China), you need to be aware of all the ways in which the grammar of your language funtions. You need to know the difference between your linguistic intuition (which can be misleading) and grammatical fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djwebb2004 Posted January 18, 2005 at 08:18 AM Report Share Posted January 18, 2005 at 08:18 AM Actually, Tsunku, you are right, and I often think that the so-called English teachers I have met in China, whose word is being taken as gospel, could do with a short brush-up course in their native tongue themselves! If only the Chinese knew how English-language standards were plummeting in both Great Britain and (of course) America!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackadder Posted January 19, 2005 at 02:10 AM Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 at 02:10 AM You guys totally lost... haha... I wish you guys the best luck in learning Chinese... and keep saying 好的很 for the rest of your life... haha... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunku Posted January 19, 2005 at 03:34 AM Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 at 03:34 AM huh? I don't have any problem with saying 好得很 (which the computer, with its Chinese IME, actually PROMPTED me to write as soon as I put in "haode...") and will keep saying it whenever I feel it is appropriate, as it has been proven, quite obviously, that it isn't *bad* Chinese. I don't think this is a matter of winning or losing. We "lost" based on what exactly? So you've proved that being a native speaker automatically makes you the ultimate authority on the language? Whatever, this is getting silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeijingSlacker Posted January 19, 2005 at 05:05 AM Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 at 05:05 AM It may be a regional thing. " Hao de hen" is definitely grammatically correct and it's not a wired phrase, but now I think about it, I actually don't use it or hear it often in Beijing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HashiriKata Posted February 4, 2005 at 11:40 AM Report Share Posted February 4, 2005 at 11:40 AM I think the use of 好得很 in the following sentence sounds quite normal: 他运气好得很，刚到车站，车就来了。 I've also seen sentences such as: 天气冷得很。 这个人的性情怪得很，不跟人说话。 So' date=' would it be correct to say that the pattern "Adj+得很" is simply an emphatic way of saying "很+Adj"; and that the self-mocking, sarcastic use of “好得很” is only a special case?[/quote'] Since my last post, I’ve come across a few examples of "Adj+得很", which appear to confirm my observation above: 那本书我忘记带来了，抱歉得很。 她娇气得很，一点儿苦也不能吃。 他看起来傻里傻气，其实机灵得很。 这小姑娘乖巧得很，很惹人爱 房子临街闹得很 Cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raylauxes Posted February 15, 2005 at 03:02 AM Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 at 03:02 AM As a native Chinese speaker/teacher (I grew up in Taiwan, I have friends from Shanghai, Beijing, and Hong Kong, I watch Mainland Chinese TV shows, and I work as a Chinese teaching asistant in US now). "好得很" is a very common phrase to me. However, as some folks have noticed, it can imply your sarcasm when you use it. On the one hand, "好得很" is usually used to emphasize something is better than expected. For exmaple, A:"你哥哥最近是不是有什么烦恼？看他心事重重的。" “B:他啊，他好得很，忙着交女朋友罢了‘ （A:"How's your brother doing? I t seems that there's some thing on his mind/bothering him." B:"He is good/can't be better. He is just busy/just doesn't have enough time with his girlfriend."）In this case, A thinks something must have been troubling B's brother so A asks B, expecting B to confirm that B's brother is not doing so well. However, B doesn't agree with A's guess. B thinks his brother is having a wonderful life and the only reason why B's brother seems "different" is just that he doesn't have enough time to be with his girl (which also implies that B doesn't think that his brother's relationship is a big issue. If B thought that his brother was having some really serious problems with his girlfriend, he wouldn't say "好得很"). On the other hand, since this phrase is usually used to "disagree" with people (e.g. "You think I am doing horrible, but you are wrong! I am great! I am doing much better than you think! Thanks for asking!"), so it's probably safer not to use it if you are not sure. Also, different tones (not the 4-tone system, but rather emotinal tones and stress) can change its meaning from "I am good. I am not as bad as you think/I appear to be. Thanks." (sincerely thanking the asker) to "What?! You think I am a loser or something?! Tell you what, I am NOT! I am GREAT! Thanks for asking, you jerk!" In summary, "好得很" is not necessarily bad Chinese. It's common and I don't see any grammatical problem with it. But use it CAREFULLY. Hope it helps. Meng-Ju Wu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOoRFGOnZ Posted February 25, 2005 at 11:52 AM Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 at 11:52 AM 好的很 就是 很好的 意思 可以表示 褒义 也可以表示贬义 这要看怎么用啦 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claw Posted February 25, 2005 at 12:02 PM Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 at 12:02 PM 好的很 就是 很好的 意思 我们知道「好得很」的意思是什么，但是有人说这个用法是不标准的，还有人不同意。我们现在讨论的就是这个问题。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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