韩寒and方舟子's blog fight

[Peter2010]

now Han is suing Fang

Funny, Han dropped lawsuit against Fang a day later.

Many people believe Han is humorous and highly talented in literature. However, this video tells a different story.

[xiaocai]

Don't know since when they started to regard 韩寒 as a 公共知识分子. I think it is rather funny.

[Outofin]

Funny, Han dropped lawsuit against Fang a day later.

Did he? Haven't heard anything about dropping the lawsuit.

Don't know since when they started to regard 韩寒 as a 公共知识分子. I think it is rather funny.

That's why I think Fang is winning. I don't mean you, xiaocai. But before the fight, many considered Han as a rare talent. They gave him many funny titles, including 当代鲁迅. Those who didn't agree didn't bother to say anyway. But now, many are no longer willing to admire Han publicly, because that seems like a bad taste. For example, the video link in #11.

Fang did change many people's opinions.

However I don't think Han is losing. He lost some unjustified titles, but that's good for him. He should just keep writing, and that's good for readers.

[Peter2010]

Haven't heard anything about dropping the lawsuit

http://finance.591hx.com/article/2012-02-13/0000121005s_2.shtml

[Outofin]

^^^ no, he dropped the lawsuit against a regulay guy who is supposedly Fang's supporter. I dont understand why Han did that in the first place. But Han is still suing Fang.

[xiaocai]

Well I'm guessing Han Han himself is like a business run by a group of people. All he needs is to attract more publicity so his books will sell and his blog will get more clicks. He does not really have anything to do with 知识分子 or 当代鲁迅 or 社会良心, except for maybe the controversy and exposure these titles have brought. I read his books and I think as someone of similar age from the same educational background I can connect myself to his writing, nothing enlightening but quite easy and fun (at least to me) to read. He's just an entertainer so I think he just needs to keep people entertained (i.e. keep arguing and writing and racing) and mission will be accomplished.

And why it is still 方丹子? Can someone correct it?

[imron]

Done.

[xiaocai]

Thank you.

[drungood]

If I was Han Han and had written everything myself, I would feel greatly complemented to be accused of having ghostwriters. It means the quality+volume of my work is so high that even my enemy thinks it is superhuman...

[gato]

There are many weird things about Han Han, including his inability to discuss literature in interviews and admission in several interviews that he's not really interested in writing and only doing it to support his racing career.

But the best evidence that I've seen that suggest something is wrong here is a 2006 interview with Phoenix TV. When asked whether he supports the effort to spread Confucianism in recent years, he answered that he doesn't actually know what Confucianism is. He also volunteered that he has not read 红楼梦 and that when he had been asked about opinions on actresses for roles in a TV adaptation of 红楼梦, he couldn't give a credible opinion because he didn't know the characters.

The strange thing is that in a recent blog post, he said that he was a fanatical reader of classical Chinese in high school and used to read classical texts like 史记 all night long. The title of his first novel “三重门" is based on a passage from "中庸", a Confucianism classic. His books quote from the classics extensively. It's hard to conceive that a person who claims to have read so much Chinese classics to not know what Confucianism is, or at least not have a reaction to renewed effort to popularize Confucianism. It's like a fan of classical Greek who has no opinion on Homer or Plato. Or a fan of classical Hebrew, who has no opinion on the Bible.

http://blog.sina.com...0b0102e061.html

正常文章一篇

(2012-01-18 16:59:55)

十七岁的我很幼稚，当时我崇拜钱钟书，梁实秋和陈寅恪。我从小喜欢阅读，小学的时候我的阅读量已经超过了五百本课外书。当然都是一些少儿科普和童话寓言，我几乎每两个晚上都要看掉一本书。到了初中高中，我拼命的读各种书，这点我的同桌和老师都可以证明，到了高中更加病态，彻夜阅读《管锥编》《二十四史》《论法的精神》《悲剧的诞生》。我的同学都有些不解。

http://club.kdnet.ne...serids=&action=

何东采访韩寒的《凤凰非常道》（http://www.tudou.com...iew/0eGDJBPy3bM ）中，到了第88分亮点出现：

何东（转网友问题）：问问韩寒，如今儒学作为国学被推崇是功还是过？

韩寒：其实很奇怪的一件事情，我从来就不知道什么是儒学。我也不知道什么儒学，什么是，红楼梦我都没有看过。以前红楼梦选秀的时候，他们问我，有几个人选出来啦，几个红楼梦的女演员，你对这些女演员怎么看？我说我不发表看法，后来他实在是逼着我要说，把我逼急了，我说我跟你说真话吧，我就连红楼梦都没看过。你跟我说的那些名字，我都不知道谁是谁。你让我怎么发表看法，我是真没有看过红楼梦，我也真的不知道以前中国的学说里面的所谓儒学所谓的什么家的，具体是什么内容我真的是不知道。

http://www.tudou.com...iew/0eGDJBPy3bM

《凤凰非常道》专访韩寒[完整版]

[gato]

One of the best articles on the Han Han matter, by Zhao Dingxin, a professor of sociology at University of Chicago. I agree with Zhao that it's important to get to the bottom of this and that if Han Han's early novels were indeed not written by him, it'd be one of the bigger scandals in recent memory due to Han Han's popularity and his position as a role model for young people.

http://book.163.com/12/0225/22/7R529EN300924JJL_all.html

芝加哥大学教授赵鼎新:韩寒很大可能是骗子

2012-02-25 22:16:17

[Peter2010]

Great article，thanks for sharing.

It's almost certain that those books published in the name of Han Han were not written by the Han Han we saw in the vedio.

[Outofin]

总之，以上一、二、三点的内在逻辑是：如果韩寒是天才的话，这样级别的天才出现的概率是极小、极小、极小的。而四、五点的逻辑则是：如果韩寒的确是个旷世奇才的话，那么四、五两点是不会成立的，但是它们竟然都成立了，那么结论就只能是韩寒不但不可能是天才，而且还有很大、很大、很大的可能是骗子。

No, this is not "reduction to absurdity". This is "reduction of absurdity".

Professor Zhao is saying, if Han wrote the novel by himself, he must be a genius, however based on his interviews and response to the crisis, he's by no mean a genius. It cannot be one person.

Many see it this way, if Han wrote the novel by himself, he must be a smart kid good at telling story. According to his interviews, he is a kid like talking nonsense. This can be one person.

Though Zhao has a good point that it's a shame of some intellectuals have given Han such a fame. They're using Han and Han is using them.

[gato]

Some of the supporters of Han in the media have gotten too emotionally invested in Han and have been too quick to resort to ad hominem attacks on the doubters. They say that the doubters are engaging in a Cultural Revolution-style attack on Han, which is a bit over the top. If the Cultural Revolution were only so orderly and logical.... Han has pushed out a product into the public arena. It's entirely legitimate to question the product.

There is a possibility that Han is joking and hiding his knowledge in some of the interview videos, but I have seen quite number of interviews now, done at various different time periods, and none of them show him to have a solid grasp of his own novels or the literature that he quotes from in his novels. That sets up a legitimate basis for doubt. It's the conflict between the literary knowledge shown in his early novels and the apparent dimness shown in these interviews that is the basic problem for most of the doubters.

Han's answers have added to the doubts by saying that he used to reading classic Chinese all night long in high school and bringing out handwritten drafts of his early novels that were perfectly clean and had few edits (looking like copies rather than drafts).

The basic problem for Han is that he doesn't sound like he knows that much literature in all the interviews he's done. He can very easily dispell the doubts by doing a live interview about the classics he quoted in his novels. He doesn't need to be a scholar, but he should have some basic familiarity since he did quote from them extensively.

[Outofin]

If I want to quote Immanuel Kant, in German, a language I don't speak, I can do it in a few minutes. Han didn't have Google at the time, but all he needed was a small note book. However there's a limit to this practice. I have to admit I never read his novel so I can't tell how extensively he quoted.

That aside, Fang got some hard evidence today!

http://weibo.com/1195403385/y7o8AiR6E

Han was talking to a editor who requested ghostwriting and Han refused to do it "again".

Hands down. Congratulations, Dr. Fang, you won.

[gato]

I didn't there was much to the accusation until I watched the interview videos with Han Han and read 《杯中窥人》(the prize-writing piece that he supposedly wrote in a live setting for the second round of the writing contest). It's a bit hard to believe that he wrote that in an hour without knowing the test prompt would be the tossing of a crumpled piece of paper in a glass of water.

On top of that, you have the extensive references to classical Chinese in 《三重门》, his first novel that he supposedly wrote when he was 16 instead of paying attention to class and which caused him to flunk nearly all his courses.

You can read a copy of 《三重门》here: http://book.kanunu.o...202/3323_1.html

He starts quoting classical Chinese literature almost from the first page: http://club.kdnet.ne...e=1&1=1#8142940

Remember he claims to have written this book in 高一 , the first year he lived away from home. So he would have read much or had contact with most of the classical literature quoted when he was still in junior high school, when he still lived at home. His parents would have some idea that he was reading so much classical literature. Yet Han's dad in 《儿子韩寒》, his memoir about his son, doesn't mention that his son was reading a large volume of classical literature at home. References to classical literature is one of the most prominent aspects of Han's early writings, so it's a bit strange that Han's dad doesn't mention what his son was reading at the time in the memoir.

http://book.qq.com/s.../14668/17.shtml

韩寒自读小学以后，从来不怕写作文，这是事实。但这都是一些被动的应试作文，也说不清楚写得好还是不好。读初中时，他参加过一次作文比赛选拔，他在一节课上写了两篇作文。但也仅此而已。

　　读初中以后，韩寒对课外书籍的涉猎越来越广了，我们的这点工资收入远远满足不了他买书的要求。1997年春节过后，当时韩寒念初二第二学期，我对韩寒说，我带你去县图书馆办个证，他们晚上也开放的，你可以到那里去阅览或借书。于是，一天晚上，我带韩寒去图书馆办了个证。以后，韩寒一个人单独去了几次。在那里，他接触到众多的少儿报刊。也就是那几次有限的阅览，使韩寒对他的同龄人的总体写作水平有了一个大体的了解，并使他产生了一种奇怪的想法。他说：那些少儿报刊上的文章写得太滥太幼稚了，我完全可以比他们写得更好。

When he says that he doesn't know what Confucianism is, isn't it like someone who supposedly loves to read the Bible but then claims not to know what Christianity is? It is theoretically possible, but highly unlikely.

[gato]

Another discrepancy. Some suspect that Li Qigang, the magazine editor who organized the 1999 writing contest, was in cahoots with Han Han's dad.

Li, in a recent statement, claims that it was Ye Zhaoxin, one of the judges for the contest, who because he was so impressed with Han Han's submission, suggested that Han Han be invited for the exam specially prepared just for him because Han supposedly didn't receive the notice for the in-person second round and missed it.

But Ye has come out and said that he doesn't remember being impressed by Han Han's writing and actually seem to remember that Han received fairly low scores from the judges for his first round submissions and that it was the marketing machine that blew Han Han's achievement out of proportion.

http://blog.sina.com...9301010hjj.html

上海李其纲的博客

三、成果及《杯中窥人》

陈佳勇的《来自沈庄的报告》让王蒙感叹：我们可以搁笔了！宋静茹的《孩子》、王越的《我与高三有个交易》让南开大学中文系副主任许祥麟教授爱不释手。王莹的《志洋》让华东师范大学文学艺术学院院长洪本健教授觉得一个高三女孩对女性心理怎么把握得如此准确细腻。而一个叫丁妍的初二女生的《东京爱情故事》更让铁凝、方方和叶兆言觉得不可思议：怎么那么像张爱玲？复赛时，叶兆言特地调来丁妍的卷子反复看。

当然还有韩寒。他的初赛作品《求医》和《书店》不仅仅引起了编辑部的一片喧哗声，同样也让复旦大学中文系主任陈思和教授、作家叶兆言击节赞叹。许多评委都传阅了这两篇作品。在得知韩寒没有参加复赛时，爱才惜才之心让叶兆言有了个提议：为什么不想办法找到韩寒，让他补赛呢？

叶兆言的提议获得了评委们的认可。1999年，3月28日上午，大赛的评选在上海青松城大酒店举行。

http://tieba.baidu.com/p/1427246334

叶兆言

第一届新概念作文大赛只看重征文来稿，当时就想，这些文字都是在家里写的，万一作弊怎么办。所谓复试，其实只是看考生当堂作文对不对路，有没有明显差距。很多人可能不相信，可当年偏偏就是这样。后来逐年增加了复试的重要性，渐渐地占了一半的分数。

说白了一句话，第一届大赛就是个征文比赛。一等奖竟然可以直升大学，实在是太占便宜，我们都在背后议论，将信将疑，这玩意到底靠不靠谱，结果各大名校还就真录取了。我为什么一再强调韩寒第一届的得奖不重要，理由就是他不是应届生，不能直升大学，没有吃到蛋糕。不直升，这奖就没有多大意义，基本上入了另册。这也是我对第一届的韩寒印象不是最深的原因，当时还有一个成年组，也有一等奖，基本上都没人知道。作为评委，对不是应届的考生，态度要宽容得多。事实上，如果我没记错，韩寒的得奖的排名也是很靠后。后来为了宣传，有意无意拔高，这是另一码事。新概念当年激动人心，就是直升大学，这也可以看出，说来说去，还是高考最厉害，最毒，即使为了反对高考模式的新概念作文，也一样走不出这个魔圈。

一直被大家忽视的是第二届大赛，韩寒只得了个二等奖，知道内情的都知道，二等奖其实就是没得奖，记得当时长天让我回答记者他为什么不能得奖，我便说了理由，这个当时有报道，大家可以查报纸，具体说什么，忘了，反正韩寒可以通过报道，知道我不赞成得奖。后来他红了，有一次在某个茶馆，好像是杭州的西湖边上，我与一些朋友在喝茶，正好遇上，当时他由记者陪同，两拨人相遇，因为共同的熟人，挤到了一个包厢里，那记者介绍我们见面，还说了这么一句，听说你们有过节。我们只能一笑了之，记得当时都是只喝茶，不说话，坐了一会便分手了。说老实话，我当时确实有些尴尬，因为他的走红，文章的名声越来越大，似乎间接说明评委第二次不给奖是看走眼了。这也是和韩寒唯一的一次面对面，我在微博中谈到跟韩寒一起喝过茶，没说清楚见面的前后关系，网民有误会，责任在我。

重提韩寒第二次没得奖，其实是想说明这个才是最致命的，因为这似乎是把一个孩子希望靠作文得奖上大学的路给封死了。在韩寒还没走红之前，我们听说的消息是他退学了，书读不下去了。很长一段时间，我一直觉得是第一次的得奖害了他，弄得他没心思读书。这个新概念作文是有责任的，我也内疚过，而且受害的可能不仅仅是韩，还会有一批喜欢写作的孩子，他们有可能会盲目模仿，所以我一再反对中学生一门心思写作。

再说一下对韩寒当时的作文印象，老实说，印象深刻的倒是第二次，因为我回答了记者的提问，跟他结下了梁子。第一届让他来复赛，是因为他在复赛名单上，并不是我慧眼，是伯乐，那是枉担虚名。我们当评委的，确实可能说过一些过头话，语文老师改学生作文都会有这毛病，其实无论作文大赛，还是高考作文，很少有什么好文章。这赛那赛就是矮子里挑将军，得奖不是说你好，只是你比别人好。没有最好，只有更差，韩寒最后能成名，是为新概念作文增了光。我当过多年评委，大家真要想听肺腑之言，只能说接触到的大多数作文都烂，都让人想呕吐，会让你感到人生的无趣。语文老师一定明白我说的话，有过参赛经验的网民，你们也不妨想想自己这个年龄段的作文。

http://book.163.com/...0V00924JJL.html

叶兆言：韩寒新概念大赛相当于没获奖

[skylee]

I have just taken a brief look at the 杯中窺人 linked to in #36 above. I think there are some ideas in it (whether they are good or just recycled from other works, I can't say for sure), but the piece was not very well written / polished.

[gato]

An analysis of attitude towards women and sex in 《三重门》, which is supposed to have been written by Han Han when he was 16 in 1998, before the spread of Internet in China (before Google and Baidu existed). Can this be explained by genius?

http://blog.sina.com...620102dus7.html

晒《三重门》作品里的爱情、性及中年猥琐男情趣 (2012-02-27 13:09:31)

[rob07]

One of the main characters in 《三重门》, the 韩寒 character's nemesis, is a fraud. He claims to be a languages genius and fluent in English, and is always showing off by using snappy English putdowns on the other students. It turns out though, that this is just because he secretly carries around a phrasebook of snappy English putdowns, and he is nearly bottom of his class in English on the exam (although he still beats the 韩寒 character).

Actually, the 韩寒 character is a fraud too. His exam results are not nearly good enough to get into the most prestigious Shanghai high schools (interestingly, even after he won the national essay writing contest in middle school, his 中考 essay writing marks are particularly bad under controlled exam conditions), but through his parents' connections he is able to get a sports scholarship even though he is rubbish at sport. This is autobiographical as I understand it.

I am not sure if Roddy will ban me for pointing this out, because he has photographic evidence that 韩寒 is nobody's spokesman and all his work is his own. You be the judge: http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/blog/2/entry-78-complete-vancler/