Single? Sad? Read this.

[kari]

And you'll feel better about yourself.

Ahem.

China. Ancient Kingdom of honor, wars, and tragic love. Nobody watches those historical movies for the romance (except us girls), but these films are riddled with love that cannot be quenched, nor can it be kept. Somebody dies, us girls cry, guys wonder why. Movies cannot tell us about love, but it makes one wonder - why does love always seem to be so... foribbden in China? Even in this day and age, people don't really go for love--and I was surprised to find that one of the first things a woman wants to know is "how much money do you make?" Sure, a gal wants to be secure with a man that will work and is successful, but is it really necessary to focus on that? Why not look past a man's pocketbook and see into his heart?

Perhaps convenience has taken the place of love. Or maybe it's the lack of women to marry. 23 million men in China are single - why? It's not because they still live at home with their parents or some of them might have foot odor... Gender preference for males has been an essential death sentence to many families. Without thinking about the ramifications of male overpopulation, parents wanted sons to carry on their family name. Well, no one's family name will be carried on if there's not an available wife to marry. Many Chinese men are looking outside of China for love, to surrounding Asian countires, Russia, and even America. But how does this make the Chinese ladies feel? They too have begun to marry outisde of China, but perhaps it's because of the allure of Western men.

With tomorrow being Western Valentines' day (Qixi festival aside), let's discuss the complications and beauty of love in China. Many of us have heard this ancient proverb, "An invisible red thread connects those who are destined to meet; regardless of time, place, or circumstances. The thread may stretch or tangle, but never break." A beautiful way to describe soulmates, but do you believe in this red thread of love? Can it reach beyond China to other parts of the world? Or is love in China a tangled web of red threads that would make a Jacob's Ladder knot blush? And if this is so, how come many people whose fingers are forever tied never seem find each other? Beyond what's seen, real love does exist - everywhere.

Everyone, please share your opinions, experiences, your hoped-for fantasies, and real love you've seen or been told of. I know Western and Eastern society and ideals are completely different, but we have one thing in common: we're human, and we fall in love.

And that's your sappy Valentine's post.

[jbradfor]

Even in this day and age, people don't really go for love

Marrying for love is a very modern notion, even in the west. Actually, I applaud Chinese women's practicality (up to a point!) when it comes to marriage. I think many western woman are waaaaaay too naive / romantic when looking to get married. Love / affection is important, yes, but there are many other factors to consider.

23 million men in China are single -

Are you sure about that number? There's about 600 million men in China, that would mean over 95% of them are married.....

Without thinking about the ramifications of male overpopulation, parents wanted sons to carry on their family name.

I certainly don't condone the male bias in China (and other countries), and I certainly don't condone aborting fetuses because they are female. BUT, on the plus side, I don't see any other way to get a culture to value something (e.g. woman) other than to have a shortage of them.

[kari]

Marrying for love is a very modern notion, even in the west. Actually, I applaud Chinese women's practicality (up to a point!) when it comes to marriage. I think many western woman are waaaaaay too naive / romantic when looking to get married. Love / affection is important, yes, but there are many other factors to consider.

True. Western women are romantic when it comes to marriage. But I don't see a point in being married to someone you don't love. I'd rather stay single.

Are you sure about that number? There's about 600 million men in China, that would mean over 95% of them are married.....

I got that quote off a Chinese society blog that posts regularly so perhaps their numbers are incorrect? The point is, a whole lot of men in China are single.

I certainly don't condone the male bias in China (and other countries), and I certainly don't condone aborting fetuses because they are female. BUT, on the plus side, I don't see any other way to get a culture to value something (e.g. woman) other than to have a shortage of them.

Yes. Don't take what you have for granted.

[jbradfor]

But I don't see a point in being married to someone you don't love. I'd rather stay single.

Again, that's a very modern notion. 100 years ago, even in the USA, job / education opportunities for women were very limited. You got married, or you starved to death. [i exaggerate slightly.]

A very wise person said "Don't marry for money. But fall in love where money is."

[kari]

A very wise person said "Don't marry for money. But fall in love where money is."

A worldly notion. But I suppose that's why my thoughts don't fit in.

[realmayo]

I don't see any other way to get a culture to value something (e.g. woman) other than to have a shortage of them.

If its value goes up it will be hoarded by the rich.

[David Wong]

I think you can grow to love money, err.. I mean grow to love someone with money (HAHA :lol: ), even if there wasn't an initial attraction. Financial difficulty is one of the major reasons for divorce.

[kari]

I think you can grow to love money, err.. I mean grow to love someone with money (HAHA :lol: ), even if there wasn't an initial attraction. Financial difficulty is one of the major reasons for divorce.

It certainly can be done! But if you can't at least they have money right? lol

[Silent]

I think it's just a matter of PR. Over the years I've seen a few scientific pieces about partner choice. As far as I remember they pretty much all conclude that long term partnerchoice of women is primarily determined by money, power and the potential to gain those. Quite logical as the offspring of those higher in the pecking order have more resources available and hence better chances of survival. Off course reality is more complex, but in the end it's just a matter of biology, a matter of survival of the fittest. Primarily secure resources so the offspring has the best chances of survival. Then find the genes to produce strong offspring, if needed outside the marriage. Infidility of women is highest on the fertile days.

[tooironic]

This reminds me of one of my Chinese friends, a male in his late 20s. He's successful, good-looking and has a pretty good personality (well he does lack some "people skills" but that's another story). Anyway, he has chosen to get married to this woman he met a mere two months ago. This woman... well let's just say she's not the sharpest tool in the shed. Nor is she a particularly exciting person. To put it bluntly, I have no idea what he sees in her. But, when asked why he chose her, he replies, "She makes a good wife." And when pressed further about why he's willing to spend the rest of his life with someone he barely clicks with, his answer is simple, "I don't think too much." In other words - this woman ticks all the boxes to be a good wife - can cook, has a sense of responsibility, wants a baby ASAP, etc. - that nothing else really matters. In the midst of all this, my dear male friend is totally willing to play around on the side - either have casual sex with women he meets at bars, or go to prostitutes from time to time - to satisfy his urges.

Now, this type of situation - getting married for convenience, while the man plays around - I must admit I haven't seen in my home country (Australia). I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but certainly no one talks about it, especially going to prostitutes, which seems like a more common thing in China (and cheaper for that matter).

So is romance dead in China? Well unfortunately this friend is not an isolated example - I know at least a few other male friends in similar situations. But on the other hand, I know plenty of other married Chinese couples who seem to have got together out of love and romance, so who knows. At the end of the day though, my friend is happy, and so is his wife apparently. So I'm not in much of a position to criticise them.

[Outofin]

>>> But I don't see a point in being married to someone you don't love. I'd rather stay single.

No, dont marray someone whom you love and who loves you. Marry someone whom you care and who cares about you.

You can fall in love, but dont ever fall in marriage.

[yialanliu]

Recently, in the fall a movie came out called 失恋33 天 .

In there, a side character mentioned why he's marrying a certain girl who only cares about money.

When love = money, for the guy, it's something he can guarantee. When love = love it's not something he could guarantee.

From a Western perspective, it's really weird, but from a Chinese perspective, it kind of makes sense unfortunately/fortunately.

While there are many single males, some are actually choosing to be single. My fiance's cousin for instance is probably one of the best guys I know and qualified to marry in China, (Audi Q5, 100sqm house, banking job, savings) yet he chooses to wait to settle down even more although we don't know what else he needs haha.

With that said, from a perspective of a middle+ income earning family it is almost considered easier to be a guy than a girl. A girl has a short period of time to marry or else it becomes much harder(unless you are a super talented and then it's different). Whereas for a guy, waiting till 30 is pretty normal and no one fusses even if your getting married for the first time at 35.

Because of this, I think it is important to note from what perspective. In my circle of friends, all the girls have mroe pressure than guys. Yet from a different economic standpoint, guys have it much harder.

[kari]

With that said, from a perspective of a middle+ income earning family it is almost considered easier to be a guy than a girl. A girl has a short period of time to marry or else it becomes much harder(unless you are a super talented and then it's different). Whereas for a guy, waiting till 30 is pretty normal and no one fusses even if your getting married for the first time at 35.

Because of this, I think it is important to note from what perspective. In my circle of friends, all the girls have mroe pressure than guys. Yet from a different economic standpoint, guys have it much harder.

I just turned 24 and I'm a single girl in America. Most of my friends are already married or have kids. I still live at home and (like your friend) am waiting to get married. Even in American culture, I'm an oddball.

So, if I were Chinese, there would be immense pressure on me to get married? Now I understand why my Chinese friend is uneasy about her relationships. She's 2-3 years younger than me. Her sister (my age) is already married and has 2 children. To me, that's too soon but I guess to Chinese, it's my unmarried friend who is too late. Thanks for helping me understand this.

[skylee]

24? oddball? How old do people usually finish college in the US? Don't people (men and women) need to establish themselves before getting married / raising a family? Why the hurry?

So, if I were Chinese, there would be immense pressure on me to get married?

This is an over-generalisation.

[David Wong]

Regional differences might have something to do with the different expectations in the US. Certainly forty years ago, you might expect most people to be married by their mid-twenties. Today, in the larger metropolitan areas, some people might not even think about marriage until they're well over thirty.

I wonder how Chinese men who think about marriage when they're older choose a mate. Do they prefer someone closer to their own age or someone who's not?

[icebear]

Regional differences might have something to do with the different expectations in the US. Certainly forty years ago, you might expect most people to be married by their mid-twenties. Today, in the larger metropolitan areas, some people might not even think about marriage until they're well over thirty.

I agree that 24 is probably younger than average... I'm 28 and although most of my friends from back home are now in multi-year, very serious relationships, relatively few are married yet.

[Meng Lelan]

wonder how Chinese men who think about marriage when they're older choose a mate. Do they prefer someone closer to their own age or someone who's not?

Could be wrong but my impression is Chinese guys in their 40s and over tend to look for those 10-15 years younger.

[icebear]

Could be wrong but my impression is Chinese guys in their 40s and over tend to look for those 10-15 years younger.

I don't think that's China specific.

[jbradfor]

24? oddball? How old do people usually finish college in the US? Don't people (men and women) need to establish themselves before getting married / raising a family? Why the hurry?

People do get married in college. In fact, I know a couple of woman that got married AND HAD KIDS while getting their PhD. kowtow to them.

Getting "established" before getting married is not really very common here, rather the attitude here is that people get married and then will "get established" together. To me, the idea of a man buying a house / flat as a pre-req to getting married is very very weird, as here it is often the woman that decides which house to get.

24 is not at all old. wikipedia gives average (mean, not median!!) age of first marriage in the USA ages as 28.4 for men, 26.5 for women. It is, however, very dependent on education level (and to a lesser extent geography), with the more eduction, the later people get married. If, for example, kari comes from a more rural area and few of her peers have a college education, 24 may very well feel late.

[Silent]

Could be wrong but my impression is Chinese guys in their 40s and over tend to look for those 10-15 years younger.

Sure, a very biased view, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were the girls that are looking for older men. Last week my language exchange partner (25) told me that age was no issue as long as the men is below 50! When I was in China I was late 30's. I was mostly approached by girls from 15 to 25. Some for genuine English practice, but several with a different agenda. The most extreme case a girl of 14-16 (seemed to have a different age every time it came up). I told her she was very attractive, a couple of days later she told me she had talked to her mother and that her mother thought it was a good idea to marry a foreigner....