Who is Yip Po-Ching

[bluetortilla]

This thread has cleared up a lot of my confusion. In future situations similar to these, I can see i'll need to 'hold my tongue' and keep in mind I'm really having to learn two basic accents (same 普通话) at the same time.

[roddy]

Where does the standard come from? Beijing? The Ministry of education?

Yes, the Ministry is home to the 国家语言文字工作委员会. You can find out more about their work at china-language.gov.cn, if the website loads. It isn't loading now, which is why I shall not wax eloquent about their no doubt glorious achievements.

While it's entirely reasonable to drift from standard for sake of style or to fit in with your own particular locals, it's wise to know when you're doing it. And bear in mind you may need to drift back.

Zhei / nei are entirely normal for me, if anything I might even overuse them.

"any of the "er-hua" horridness"

Aw, that's sad. Nothing horrid about it, and I doubt you'd say the same about any other Chinese accent.

[renzhe]

Do people say "zhei yang" and "zhei bianr"? I can't say I've paid much attention, but it sounds odd to me.

They do. But it could also be regional.

Anyway, I've looked at some Mainland-published dictionaries at home, and none of them lists "zhei" as a contraction, only as an alternative reading, with exactly the same meaning as "zhe". So I do suspect that it's used differently in Taiwan.

BTW, I <3 erhua horridness

[bluetortilla]

"any of the "er-hua" horridness"

Aw, that's sad. Nothing horrid about it, and I doubt you'd say the same about any other Chinese accent.

I don't know if it's standard or not, but I love the language in movies like 'Farewell My Concubine.' Some of the most beautiful language I've ever heard anywhere in the world.

Occasionally I'll hear northerners on the train here and find their accent really cool sounding. I always think, 'Now that's how I want to speak Chinese.' So nothing horrid at all about it to me. lol

There is nothing wrong either with the Cantonese accent and 粤语, which is beautiful in its own way, but for a beginner it is quite a struggle learning to speak standard Chinese down here. I just stick to my texts- I assume they're all standard.

[realmayo]

Er hua is all well and good in its place, which is northern China. But not in putonghua. Northerners speaking putonghua have to remember which ers not to hua, while everyone else has to add in a few fairly arbitrary ones which stick out like sorrrrre thumbs from the rest of their speech. Like requiring English speakers to pronounce a only a handful of words with glottal stops, but most without. That's putonghua's fault though, not, say, Beijing's. And it's only my personal opinion, OP please take it with a pinch of salt.

Now, other dialects ... in Suzhou I walked past a doorway behind which I genuinely assumed were chickens fighting, and it was actually a couple of old women chatting. But yes, given time, I might have learned to love it. I like the sound of Wuhan and Sichuan dialects.

[roddy]

WTF? I never said ANY of this.

[Elizabeth_rb]

Yes, I know, ancient topic and someone will roll their eyes at my having re-started it, but I wanted to answer the original question, i.e. who is Yip Po-Ching?

Dr Yip is a, now, retired university teacher of Chinese (mostly Mandarin, but he also worked in at least the examining of Cantonese) who worked at the University of Leeds, UK, for many years - alongside Prof Don Rimmington, also now retired. I was taught by both these men, Prof Rimmington just for the first year (he retired then), and Dr Yip was there until my grad and then supported my application for postgraduate Chinese-English translation studies. The books they wrote together began to appear at about the time I started my studies at Leeds.

Yes, Dr Yip is a native Cantonese speaker, and he was referred to by the rest of the Mandarin team as 叶老师。He gave the first introductory classes in Chinese script in the first year, and then worked with us more closely on finalist level things, after our intensive year abroad and a second year in Leeds, on stylistics, composition and advanced level grammar. Level would be B2/C1 (Eur) ILR 3/4 in that final year. I don't recall him having a very strong Cantonese accent and he never struck me as the kind of person who would think to Google himself either!!LOL!

Hope that's been at least somewhat interesting to someone! Now you know who he is.

[bluetortilla]

Very interesting to the OP! : D

I guess we won't be getting any new editions then. Good stuff. I'm in the first third of the second 'intermediate' book now. Structured pretty much like the first.

[roddy]

Has anyone read / looked at his The Chinese Lexicon: A Comprehensive Survey. It looks really interesting, in a kind of obscure way: 

We will first take a look at how onomatopoeic features in disyllabic words are carried over from crude imitation into acoustic symbolism and become interwoven with alliterating and rhyming devices; and as onomatopoeia gradually gives way to purer alliteration and rhyme, other tones than the first (i.e. level) creep in:

Don't tell me that hasn't got you lot rubbing your thighs in anticipation...

[li3wei1]

Any free review copies?

[alanmd]

Thanks for that genuinely very interesting post Elizabeth, I had wondered who they were for a while!

[bluetortilla]

 

 

We will first take a look at how onomatopoeic features in disyllabic words are carried over from crude imitation into acoustic symbolism and become interwoven with alliterating and rhyming devices; and as onomatopoeia gradually gives way to purer alliteration and rhyme, other tones than the first (i.e. level) creep in:

 

Ha, yes. Great stuff.

 

I was going to buy it from Amazon.cn but it's almost 2000 RMB! (156 USD hardcover/ 45 paperback on Amazon.com)

[alanmd]

I've had my eye on that for a while, you just reminded me so I ordered a used hardback copy for $60. I'll try to post a short review when it arrives. Anyone want buy a used copy for $60? (just in case I hate it, which I doubt... if nothing else it'll have a good home alongside my copy of Fang-yu Wang's awesome but still not fully read "Chinese Cursive Script: An Introduction to Handwriting in Chinese") 

[roddy]

I have a copy now; it's on my reading pile. I picked mine up for £20, so will be able to undercut Alan's offer ;-)

[Elizabeth_rb]

I'd be interested to know more about that lexicon book.  I'm sure I've either seen it or something about it, but finding decent level Chinese language and linguistics stuff on the high street is not a common occurrence.  I'll have to try the Blackwells here in Sheffield (which sells some of the stuff supporting the East Asian Studies programmes at the Uni) and also the university library.  If they don't have it in the Chinese collection, they should!

 

PS Alan: You're welcome, glad to help.

[alanmd]

Not wanting to promote a tax dodging mega corp too much, but Amazon is quite amazing for out of print and otherwise hard to find books.

[Elizabeth_rb]

Indeed it is, and I've contributed a fair amount to their enrichment over the last decade!  However, I want a really good *look* at this book before I buy it, so I need to see it for real first.  Being able to borrow it from the uni library (on my hubby's student card - he's doing his PhD, not in Chinese though) would be the ideal solution.

 

那看看把。

 

Later:  Ho-hum, my brain needs a break!  I just found this book, published in 2000, on my Amazon wishlist!  There's also a very good preview function.  So, I must have a better look at that.  Chinese linguistics is very much on my 'to get into' list.

[alanmd]

I would have liked to see it too, but I figured it was worth the risk, after all if I don't like it I can sell it used for £19 (price matching...), not a big loss even for a poor (also not in Chinese) PhD student like me.

[Elizabeth_rb]

The cheapest available on Amazon UK is £25.74, so don't cheat yourself if you need to re-sell and do it for only £19!!  Remember that the vultures do take 30-odd% of your selling price PLUS the same chunk of your postage.  At least e-bay only nick 10%!

 

Let us know how you get on with it.

 

I wonder what Dr Yip is up to these days.  He had plans for a magnificent dictionary cum thesaurus and was supposed to be contacting me (a decade ago) about working on his team for it.  

 

All this talk of Chinese has made me want to study, so I'm going to lose myself in something academic looking and expect to be asleep within a quareter of an hour.  (It's been a long weekend including about 10 hours of Chinese talks!)

[roddy]

You might also want to take a look at this Perry Link book - I should be acquiring a copy of that in... oooh, 9 days.