My wives family is strange, or?

[Flickserve]

The OP's never said anything about America.

ok. I got a bit mixed up somewhere.

[Flickserve]

I know Chinese parents are desperately worried about being looked after by children in their old age. Would their daughter marrying and living very far away raise their anxiety? Then to cap it all, a very token amount of 'wedding present' is given to her closest relative. If all she gives to her brother-in-law is a couple of watches, then does that reflect that the daughter will hardly help in looking after the her parents in their old age...? This is irrespective of the laowai status.

[imron]

If you were to give a watch, something like a USD12,000 upwards watch for each person would be more appropriate. This is a once off wedding.

Excuse me, what?  In what world is it normal and appropriate for people to get a USD $24,000 wedding gift (1 watch each for bride and groom) from your sibling.

 

I agree however that you probably should have just given them money for their wedding rather than a gift - and I'm surprised your wife didn't point this out.

 

RMB 10,000 for a sibling is not unreasonable in a Chinese context, but in a Chinese context you'd also be getting that money back over the years in Hongbao's to your children and whatever.  I'd also be interested in what the brother or family gave you for your wedding.  If someone gives you a Hongbao at your wedding, then when you attend their wedding it's usually a point of etiquette to give back a Hongbao of at least the same size.  So if you got RMB 10,000 from them, but then only gave them a couple of $200 watches, then it's understandable if they're a bit miffed because you've broken system that basically sees this money just getting moved around from person to person.

[889]

And why did you give watches, to both! Everyone knows clocks are taboo as gifts in China, and if the recipients are sensitive folk looking to take offence, you stay well clear of watches, too.

[Flickserve]

Excuse me, what? In what world is it normal and appropriate for people to get a USD $24,000 wedding gift (1 watch each for bride and groom) from your sibling..

sorry Imron, hadn't realised this figure would be too low for you. Apologies.

[imron]

Apology accepted

[Chris Two Times]

I have been wondering about this statement from the OP:

 

- They are extremely money-hungry. We must pay for almost anything when we are there, and they constantly want more money, in cash.

 

As imron has indicated, I wonder if any of those hongbaos or cash have trickled back to the OP.

 

Warm regards,

Chris Two Times

[Lu]

I thought that was strange. It's entirely normal in China that grown children contribute financially to the family (and the family to them), but generally guests are not allowed to pay for anything, so to me that part seems entirely against Chinese etiquette.

[imron]

but generally guests are not allowed to pay for anything

Perhaps they are seen as family and not guests then?

 

As I'm sure you know, China basically follows a sort of 'everything evens out in the wash' mentality to paying for things.  I pay for the meal today, you pay for the meal tomorrow and over time everything comes out square.  Even more so with gift-giving and cash in a family, it's like there's a big general pool of money that just sloshes around to whoever currently has a major life event.  If OP and his wife have been the beneficiaries of that, but haven't contributed back, then they would literally be taking money out of the pot that everyone else shares around.

 

We don't have enough information to know whether or not this is the case, but it's not necessarily a given that the family are just money-hungry.  They could just be expecting the OP to fulfill his role in the quid pro quo system at play.

[Alebo]

Hi everyone, its the OP again!

 

Some of you wondered if we have got something back. Yes we have, on our wedding the gave us a bunch of cash, I dont remember if it was 10 or 20 thousand. Under that time, when they were in our country (which is NOT the US!) we payed for literally everything for them: Hotels, transport, flight tickets, food. We took them around Europe for traveling also, so what they gave us they definately got back. Not in pure cash, but in value. My own family thought we were way to generous towards them. Since then, we have taken them to travel both inside and outside china and cover all expenses. My feeling is we have repayed them at least the double of that wedding cash. But as you say, that may be irrelevant to them since its not pure cash.

 

I left out the fact we already have 2 children, two girls. When my mother in law stayed here a few months to help with the kids, she got a "salary" of a few thousand every month. She gave 10000 "for the children" at that time also, but those were quickly eaten up by her salary, and travel expenses. My own family thinks we are crazy and that we are to generous towards them. I come from a background when a gift use to be mostly a few hundred. Do you see? We are stuck between two cultures. 

And one disturbing part is, allthough they are happy to be with the girls, they are constantly nagging my wife that we have no son, and that we should try to get a son.

 

Let me tell you about my wife. She still likes and is proud of the homeland, however from she was little she was told that she needs to sacrifice her own needs in favor for her brother, because he is....a boy. Thats the biggest reason why she escaped her family in the first place. She still wants to give her family things, but preferable not in pure cash, because she knows that these cash will only flow to her brother. It should also be mentioned we were not at the wedding, the wristwatches was given a year later when we visited them so they would not have to lose their face publicly. Giving away 10000 directly to her brother is something she would not do, and I consider it sound, even though we will suffer their wrath.

 

And are you sure its so bad to buy wristwatches? When I was going to meet my father in law for the first time, ten years from now, I was informed he wanted a Rolex from me. As I found that totaly impossible, I bought a Longines instead. He still wears it today. Always when I meat him I bring gifts that costs a few hundret yuan, vodka, cigarettes. My wife bought him a coat and shoes. But my wife also tells me they are like a bottomless hole, they will never show appreciation no matter how much we give. I see there is a possibility that we dont offer enough pure cash, even though we pay for all kinds of things all the time. But those of you that says that money just flows around, it is simly not true considering our situation where they only favor their son.

One concrete example: Her sister with family has no own apartment. Her brother has several - in different towns. He got it all from his father. Her sister sometimes lives in her brothers empty apartment, but its not hers. My wife didnt want to be a part of that, so she escaped.

[Lu]

Sounds like at least you and your wife are on the same page when it comes to her parents, which is a very, very good thing. Also, it seems you're both happy that you live far away from her family. This is also a very good thing, both the living far away and the fact that you are both happy with this.

 

And from what I understand, you're fairly well versed in Chinese culture and habits. Do you have a question or a specific thing you want to resolve, or did you just want to vent? Just venting is fine by me, by the way. It just seems that although the circumstances are somewhat problematic, you and your wife are handling them well and as a team. Keep that up and good luck to both of you and your daughters!

[Alebo]

In the beginning I wanted to know I their behavior was "typical chinese" or its just them. My last post was probably most venting, I felt a need to do that at that time . 

 

My original question was somewhat if their social behavior was "normal", partly because their so grumpy all the time (not just about that wedding gift). But such social behavior things are hard to describe in a forum.

 

At least I understand now that their view of money and boy-girl issues are fairly average normal chinese.

Thanks for you answers, I often feel these things are a bit taboo to talk about even with my chinese friends here at home.

[陳德聰]

Their behaviour is not unheard of, and definitely not surprising, but I don't know that I would call it "normal". Many Chinese folks would call their 重男輕女 backward and archaic, though perhaps they're the younger crowd.

[gato]

Your basic problem seems to be that your wife's relationship with her parents and brother is poor. She didn't even attend her brother's wedding. This makes it difficult for your in-laws to warm up to you.

In addition, there is a clash of expectations. Your in-laws seem to be financially well-off and have expectation for splashy spending. You, on the other hand, seem to come from a more frugal background. This clash seems difficult to resolve. You probably will just have to accept it.

[Flickserve]

Your basic problem seems to be that your wife's relationship with her parents and brother is poor. She didn't even attend her brother's wedding. This makes it difficult for your in-laws to warm up to you.

In addition, there is a clash of expectations. Your in-laws seem to be financially well-off and have expectation for splashy spending. You, on the other hand, seem to come from a more frugal background. This clash seems difficult to resolve. You probably will just have to accept it.

I was talking to a person who said her father was from Shanghai and mother from HK with a Hakka background. She said her parents divorced because of "you know, one is from Shanghai and loves to spend money and the other is frugal..".

Thanks to OP for the extra information.

With that, I think you are doing fine. Probably at your brother in law's wedding, I would have given the cash but stuck to your policy of mostly material goods at other times.

I wouldn't worry about your in-law's attitudes to you. If anything, I would reduce my visits seeing them. Go to other parts of China and the world only telling your wife's family much, much later.

[imron]

Thanks for the extra information and clarification!

 

And are you sure its so bad to buy wristwatches?

Giving someone a clock '送钟' is pronounced the same as '送终', which is saying goodbye to someone on their deathbed.  Watches have a different pronunciation, but may suffer from the same association.  Note that paying for someone to get a watch is not necessarily the same as giving an unasked for watch, but if anything not giving a Hongbao for the brother's wedding, and then waiting over a year to provide a wedding gift is probably more of an issue rather than what you gave.

 

Anyway, from the sound of it, it seems that whatever you do you aren't going to make them happy, so you might as well just do what you feel comfortable with, and be thankful that you live in a separate country :-)

[Alebo]

imron, let me just make it crystal clear for you and everyone else that we did not attend the wedding. Last 6 years we only went to china twice so far and had no oportunity to go at the time when the wedding took place! Is a hongbao still mandatory in that case?

[Alebo]

Gato, I totally agree with your post.

[大肚男]

How I see it, because it is her brother, I think the fact you did not attend the wedding making it even more important to give an even bigger hong bao than if you have attended.

[Alebo]

Ok, anyway it was all my wifes decision. I think her mind set goes like this: we gave the same wedding gift to both of her sisters (she has 2) weddings which we also did not attend (about 2000 yuan each) and giving more to the brother would be unfair. So I think her moral tells her that if she would have to give >10k to her brother she would have to give that amount to each of her sisters as well, which she did not (giving that all at once now would crash our budget). So she gave the same for her brother.