Systemized list of 214 radicals for memorizing characters faster

[Pall]

Such memorization mnemo-technique is needed only for the most difficult characters to remember. The bulk of them can be easily memorized as if they are letters of an alphabet, a long one though. How to do that I wrote in the https://www.chinese-forums.com/forums/topic/58727-characters-learning-how-to-proceed-after-radicals/

[ParkeNYU]

That would be an idiosyncratic method of learning, forcing yourself to create your own stories for each character. This can work on a character-by-character basis but it won't help you with other related characters for which you'll have to make entirely new stories each time. What will be your story for 般? How about 殳? Will it help you with 盤?

 

Perhaps you're just good at the arbitrary rote memorisation of shapes without necessarily understanding them—hats off to you.

[Pall]

3 minutes ago, ParkeNYU said:

That would be an idiosyncratic method of learning, forcing yourself to create your own stories for each character. This can work on a character-by-character basis but it won't help you with other related characters for which you'll have to make entirely new stories each time. What will be your story for 般? How about 殳? Will it help you with 盤?

 

Perhaps you're just good at the arbitrary rote memorisation of shapes without necessarily understanding them—hats off to you.

 

You're right, I agree. I use the idiosyncratic method of learning only when necessary, not often. The rest of the Chinese words is learnt as if they consist of letters of a very long alphabet. 

[Shelley]

All seems to me as if there is too much preparing to study and not enough actual study going on here.

 

I find it so difficult to understand why you would spend so much time and effort creating this system when there are plenty of tried and tested methods.

 

As @ParkeNYU says if this works for you, hats off. I just don't understand why.

[Pall]

31 minutes ago, Shelley said:

I just don't understand why.

 

There is a handicap, which didn't allow me to learn language with Duolingo and similar game-based-methods. I had a rare imparing of the breathing system, and when I'm learning the language through all such games the breathing pattern is affected. It looks strange, but it's a fact. That's why I have to invent.

 

And in  addition to previously written here I splitted the words of the HSK5 for pinyin syllables and made a table where for each syllable I showed corresponding characters. Some pinyin syllables have only one character for each of them (within the HSK5), and some like jì  up to 14. But normally it's 4-5 characters. It helps to remember them. When you know that, for example, guān can be 观, 关 or 官, within the HSK5, it becomes not so difficult to remember these characters.

[Shelley]

I wasn't suggesting any game based learning, just using the standard system for remembering characters by learning their component parts (not radicals) and practise writing characters. Using flashcards, not necessarily computer ones even paper ones would help.

Its also a good idea to learn characters in context.

 

Anyway you have got your reasons and you are obviously going to carry on with your method. 

 

I hope it goes well for you.

[Pall]

33 minutes ago, Shelley said:

Using flashcards, not necessarily computer ones even paper ones would help.

 

Flashcards are a part of the games. I can't use flashcards. That's why I learn everything in the context, in real language.

33 minutes ago, Shelley said:

Anyway you have got your reasons and you are obviously going to carry on with your method. 

 

I hope it goes well for you.

 Thank you for your wishes!

[Pall]

On 9/20/2019 at 12:48 PM, ParkeNYU said:

What will be your story for 般? How about 殳? Will it help you with 盤?

 

 

Phonetic component in simlifyed characters is often missing, and even if present it doesn't indicate the tone. Why not to combine then your precise analysis of the character components with grouping the characters according to their pinyin transcription? Please, see
https://www.chinese-forums.com/forums/topic/59020-grouping-characters-according-to-their-sound-as-an-alternative-to-phonetic-component-in-functional-analysis/

[ParkeNYU]

It's actually more often that a simplified character will either keep the original phonetic component or replace it with a simpler one while either reducing the semantic component(s) or eliminating them altogether.

 

Either way, you're assuming that the learner:

a) uses pinyin instead of another phonetic system

and

b) uses simplified characters instead of traditional characters.

 

Meanwhile, proper character analysis applies to all of the above, and in the case of simplified characters, you add an extra step in the analysis to explain the simplification. It's better, in my opinion, to really understand the characters than to just know them. Learning Chinese isn't a race, or at least it oughtn't be one—it's important to spend time with it and really fully internalise it on all levels; even if it takes more work, it's better work because it will help you learn more characters more easily down the road. I believe that thorough learning is preferable to expedient learning.

[Pall]

5 minutes ago, ParkeNYU said:

Learning Chinese isn't a race, or at least it oughtn't be one—it's important to spend time with it and really fully internalise it on all levels; even if it takes more work, it's better work because it will help you learn more characters more easily down the road. I believe that thorough learning is preferable to expedient learning.

 

That is what I'm doing. I have a brake in reading  and other studies in order to learn the basic "alphabet" . And to learn that it's possible to apply functional analysis as well. Further, I suppose, reading will go on more smoothly and with less effort.

[DavyJonesLocker]

On 9/20/2019 at 6:14 PM, Shelley said:

All seems to me as if there is too much preparing to study and not enough actual study going on here

 

Agree, I think  traditional study is often  see as old fashioned now and therefore defunct. People seem to want secret shortcuts , to cut down the work load, such as creating elaborate mnemonics and stories. 

Naturally some ideas are poor like only going through a huge part of words everyday , but in my view  the only way to improve is to roll up the sleeves and get stuck in , going over and over texts , material , listening, words etc until it starts to slowly sink in.. 

 

I don't  have any objection to anyone's technique , if it works, then go for it! However I think it's easy to fall into the trap of getting using rapid short term progress and then linearly  extrapolating that technique to assume the same rate of learning . 

[Pall]

1 hour ago, DavyJonesLocker said:

I don't  have any objection to anyone's technique , if it works, then go for it! However I think it's easy to fall into the trap of getting using rapid short term progress and then linearly  extrapolating that technique to assume the same rate of learning .

 

I agree! Now I'm doing quite the opposite. I have a break in my reading and other studies in order to learn "the alphabet". Please, see here. It's interesting what you'll say on that
https://www.chinese-forums.com/forums/topic/58946-systemized-list-of-214-radicals-for-memorizing-characters-faster/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-459027

I use the radicals (components) mainly as an additional tool to memorize characters. The main idea is to learn firstly "the alphabet" of a reasonable range (HSK-5). Further my tactic may change.

[ParkeNYU]

@DavyJonesLocker

 

On one extreme, students look for all the shortcuts possible, and on the other, students resort to rote memorisation without understanding the why and the how. If you're willing to do all that work anyway, you might as well work harder and smarter rather than merely harder. Mnemonic stories are ultimately a trap if you plan on learning more than a thousand characters, for example. I find the best way to understand large volumes of data is to do it within a structured system wherein their network of connections is clear, ideally functional components in this case.

[Pall]

3 hours ago, ParkeNYU said:

Mnemonic stories are ultimately a trap if you plan on learning more than a thousand characters, for example. I find the best way to understand large volumes of data is to do it within a structured system wherein their network of connections is clear, ideally functional components in this case.

 

It's not only mnemonics in this case. The syllables are organized in a table. Isn't it a structured network? I need mnemonics only at the initial stage. Very soon the characters are remembered just because they have the same pinyin. For example, you can recollect all men named John, whome you know. Similar thing is here, and even better organized, since I know how many characters there are in the line corresponding to the transcription within the HSK5.

[DavyJonesLocker]

10 hours ago, ParkeNYU said:

On one extreme, students look for all the shortcuts possible, and on the other, students resort to rote memorisation without understanding the why and the how. If you're willing to do all that work anyway, you might as well work harder and smarter rather than merely harder. Mnemonic stories are ultimately a trap if you plan on learning more than a thousand characters, for example. I find the best way to understand large volumes of data is to do it within a structured system wherein their network of connections is clear, ideally functional components in this case.

 

Its a hard balance to get right, i.e. constantly preparing to study rather than get just stuck in. For example, a lot of people seem to very anti SRS and see it as useless rote learning. I find it a very useful tool and really need to spend time per day going over and over characters / words until they sink in. Now i don't mean words i have never seen before, but perhaps haven't come up in a long time,  yet I would rather not lose them as I know I will almost certainly use them in the future, e.g. words that seem to come up on a yearly basis and almost not spoken after than 对联, 月饼 etc 。 Idioms i would be very hesitant about putting into an SRS apart from a handful i would personally use, as I find the work / reward balance just too low 

 

I tried both ways and clearly allocating a part of the study time to SRS is hands down the way to go. If this allocation eats into other activities such as reading listening etc then it rapidly become a hindrance. That tipping point took a good bit of time for me to figure out. There is a high danger of being drawn into a vicious cycle of getting bogged down on SRS so you postpone the reading until you clear the backlog. However lack of reading makes the SRS all the more difficult as you begin to lose context and meaning. 

 

18 hours ago, Pall said:

I agree! Now I'm doing quite the opposite. I have a break in my reading and other studies in order to learn "the alphabet". Please, see here. It's interesting what you'll say on that
https://www.chinese-forums.com/forums/topic/58946-systemized-list-of-214-radicals-for-memorizing-characters-faster/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-459027

I use the radicals (components) mainly as an additional tool to memorize characters. The main idea is to learn firstly "the alphabet" of a reasonable range (HSK-5). Further my tactic may change.

 

 ok cool, will reply over there Pall

[Pall]

@DavyJonesLocker

 

Sorry, it was a wrong link
https://www.chinese-forums.com/forums/topic/59020-grouping-characters-in-pinyin-structured-table-as-an-alternative-to-their-functional-analysis/