So is it year of the Rat or year of the Mouse? Because those are different.

[vellocet]

So I hear different English translations whether or not it's Rat or Mouse.  They're different animals.  So which one was in that race, a mouse or a rat? 

[Shelley]

The character for rat is interchangeable with mouse as is sheep with goat.

 

鼠  shǔ  rat/mouse

 

羊  yáng  sheep/goat/ram/ewe

 

These 2 are the first 2 that spring to mind but IRC there are other pairs of similar animals/insects/birds that share a name.

 

I think it is usually referred to as the year of the rat. Some people prefer the mouse as a cleaner rodent.

 

[Dawei3]

I think I've only heard rat, but most of my friends are from the mainland.  (written with the recognition that the word has a dual meaning).  With a google search, of "year of the rat versus mouse" most hits are of the year of the rat.  Even when I searched on "year of the mouse", virtually all hits were for year of the rat.   

 

During the year of the sheep/goat/ram, an article noted which animal was chosen differed in China, Vietnam, Japan & other countries (I forget where I read this?). 

 

In contrast, within Hong Kong, all 3 were used:  https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1716091/its-not-sheep-or-ram-its-year-goat-says-leading-chinese-linguist

 

I couldn't find it on-line in SCMP, but UPenn's language log posted a fun cartoon from the SCMP with a horse talking with a goat, sheep and ram, saying "Come now, you can't all be called Yang, can you?"  It was an engaging topic that triggered 92 comments:  https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=17761  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[889]

But there are characteristics associated with those born in whatever year, and the characteristics associated with next year's births seem to fit the cunning rat more than the meek mouse.

[vellocet]

Got that cartoon anywhere?  I didn't see it at the link.

[Dawei3]

Here it is from the blog:

[imron]

1 hour ago, 889 said:

But there are characteristics associated with those born in whatever year, and the characteristics associated with next year's births seem to fit the cunning rat more than the meek mouse.

Not to mention the way the Rat won the race to be in first place of the zodiac cycle.  My vote is also for Rat.

[Jan Finster]

3 hours ago, Shelley said:

羊  yáng  sheep/goat/ram/ewe

 

I always thought goat is 山羊 ("mountain sheep") 

[mungouk]

3 hours ago, Shelley said:

羊  yáng  sheep/goat/ram/ewe

 

Well, a ram and a ewe are both sheep.

 

Some Asian countries use rabbit instead of cat in the zodiac, and water buffalo rather than ox, IIRC.

 

 

[geraldc]

With regards to mislabeling animals, let's not forget that the Chinese Zodiac year begins Feb 4, so this year there will be a weeks worth of babies thinking they're Rats, when they're in fact still pigs

[Dlezcano]

I think this is an interesting question. Some Chinese find a difference between 老鼠 and 耗子, regarding the last one as the dirty rodent that eats almost everything and lives in dirty environments, while other sources state that both are the same. If I had to choose one, I would go for "Year of the mouse", which sounds better in my ears.

[ChTTay]

For my Chinese grade one students I usually Just tell them a rat is the big black one that lives mostly in cities and a mouse is the little white/brown one that you find everywhere. They can get that distinction. We also have various books with mice in and they’re all cute small things. If there is ever a rat it’s usually big and black/grey.

[abcdefg]

I've noticed quite a few New Year decorations featuring animal characters that look like Mickey Mouse and Minnie Mouse.  

[Dlezcano]

You also can search 鼠年 in google images and take your own conclusions about whether the photos represent a mouse or a rat. Actually it's really hard to tell, but I think in our culture the rat has more negative connotations than a mouse. As I told before, I have asked some Chinese people, (just now again) and they said 鼠年 is about the kind of mouse living outside of cities, but again, some people didn't find any difference between 耗子 and 老鼠, while others did.

[Shelley]

I think that the differences between them to the layman's eye are minimal and mainly consist of size and where they live.

 

I don't think it is at all unreasonable to use one name for both.

 

I can understand why it is that way and I don't think its that important for a zodiac.

 

From a science point of view then yes you do need to be precise.

[roddy]

Ok, so I've solved this. 

Quote

 

...why you may ask does the feline not feature in the zodiac?

Well, that’s down to the rat.

Although the pair were friends, the cat asked the rat to wake it up for the race as it had a habit of sleeping in. The rat was so excited, it forgot. By the time the cat woke up, it was far too late to enter. Hopefully, their friendship survived this most bitter of hiccups.

source

 

 

Rats are not excitable creatures. Everyone knows that. Therefore it was a mouse. 

[geraldc]

Chinese aren't good with classifying animals full stop. My wife often refers to various birds as eagles in English, as she's used to the Chinese use of the word 鹰. This has led me getting very excited many times, only to be disappointed every time.

 

I do wonder why people get hung up on mouse vs rat, with regards to the zodiac, when they are more than happy to accept dragon without any specific taxonomic information to back it up.

 

We could just translate the zodiac animal as murinae 

 

 

 

 

[Wurstmann]

I call it the year of the hamster Because a lot of Chinese people refer to all kinds of small animals as 小老鼠.

[JenniferW]

Love the 'Year of the Hamster'! Just made this collage to have a friend say that two of them looked way more like hamsters than rats.

[Dawei3]

4 hours ago, Wurstmann said:

I call it the year of the hamster

Great injection of humor!  And i like Jennifer's collage.  哈哈