Alchemist Posted October 2, 2004 at 06:28 PM Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 at 06:28 PM Does anyone know the "Contemporary Chinese Dictionary" 《现代汉语词典》? I've read good reviews of it on the Internet, but I'd like to know if anyone here would recommend it. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonglan Posted October 2, 2004 at 06:53 PM Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 at 06:53 PM Is it Chinese-Chinese/Chinese-English or only Chinese-English? I ask because I too had heard good things about this dictionary, but thought (hoped) it was at least Chinese-Chinese since there is a a real dearth of good Chinese dictionaries IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchemist Posted October 2, 2004 at 07:07 PM Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 at 07:07 PM Is it Chinese-Chinese/Chinese-English or only Chinese-English? If I'm not mistaken, it is the English translation of a Chinese-Chinese dictionary. For every word it gives the Chinese explanation, then the English translation. I'd like to know more about it from someone who used it in person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted October 3, 2004 at 12:33 AM Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 at 12:33 AM there is a a real dearth of good Chinese dictionaries I don't know your definition of "good", but I find 現代漢語辭典 (Chinese-Chinese edition) quite useful. But my favourite Chinese-Chinese dictionary remains 朗文中文高級新辭典 (ISBN 9620051521 or 9620050673). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChouDoufu Posted October 3, 2004 at 10:56 PM Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 at 10:56 PM It looks remarkably similar to the update of my Chinese-English dictionary (and it's published by the same school). The cover seems a little odd, because at the top it says 汉英双语 and towards the middle it says Chinese-English. I'd check to make sure that it's not just a Chin-Eng. If it is the Chin-Eng, then I have to say it's probably the best one out there (for mainlaind China). ALso note the price in China is probably 1/8th the price of that store... Chin-Chin: I just use 商务出版社's 现代汉语. It's the one that was revised in 2003... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonglan Posted October 16, 2004 at 02:17 AM Report Share Posted October 16, 2004 at 02:17 AM I don't know your definition of "good", I like to find the word I'm looking for. I'm not being sarcastic. It's a common complaint of foreign learners that Chinese dictionaries are missing a lot of words they look for. That's why ABC Comprehensive is (as far as I know) so well liked. It's also stumpable, but less likely to be, and I have recently been assured by two different people that ABC (despite its current lack of replies) is still looking for new words and improving which is nice to see in a dictionary that already has 196,000+ entries. Wei Dongya's _Chinese-English Dictionary_ is a good source for grammar and usage that escape other C-E dictionaries. Also, many Chinese dictionaries violate some of the basic rules of lexicography by doing things such as, 1) defining the word with that word 2) using a word in the definition that itself doesn't appear in that dictionary 3) [related to 2 (above)] defining a word by using words that are unnecessarily complicated. Dictionaries are supposed to be as simple as possible. That way even dumb people like me can use them. For individual characters Chinese dictionaries are fine. When I get back to Taiwan or to China, I'll look for your dictionary as I know you're quite fond of it. Thanks for the recommendation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChouDoufu Posted November 2, 2004 at 10:43 PM Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 at 10:43 PM I checked out that dictionary above. It is great. It's actually a Chinese ->CHN/ENG dictionary. So it has a Chinese definition and an english definition for the Chinese words. It's a relatively new edition from the Foreign language university and is based off of one of the best CHinese->english dicitonaries. It's big and pricey, but it's definitely worth it. It also has grammar explanations that are shaded in gray. buy it now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentsuarez Posted November 3, 2004 at 06:41 AM Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 at 06:41 AM Choudoufu or anyone else who has one: is there any chance you could send an email with a scanned page or two to whoever requests it? I'm very interested in seeing the quality of the historical info which the ad says it contains. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted November 3, 2004 at 07:03 AM Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 at 07:03 AM I'm planning to drop into a couple of bookstores on my way home and see if I can get a copy. If I can I'll take a digital photo and put it up. I was getting quite used to using a Chinese dictionary, but getting Plecodict for my PDA means I'm using the ABC. What I'd really love is a good Chinese-chinese dictionary for my Palm. . . Roddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlo Posted November 4, 2004 at 09:16 AM Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 at 09:16 AM skylee: I've always wanted to buy a good dictionary published in HK, but last time I was there almost all the dictionaries I saw were mainland imports or simply more expensive editions of the same titles available here. May I ask you why you like 朗文中文高级新词典? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted November 4, 2004 at 10:30 AM Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 at 10:30 AM Ok, this lucky dictionary has now spent a few hours in my company. Just skip to the bottom for pictures. Basically, they've taken the 现代汉语词典, which is a pure Chinese-Chinese dictionary, translated the entries into English, and called it the 现代汉语词典(英汉双语版)， or Contemporary Chinese Dictionary Chinese-English edition. So basically, what you have is a Chinese-Chinese dictionary AND a Chinese-English dictionary, with Chinese and English explanations next to each other for each Chinese headword. The above-mentioned 现代汉语词典 is the work of the Dictionary Department of the Insitute of Linguistics of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences (中国社会科学院语言研究所词典编辑室). I think they license their work to anyone who wants it - the pure Chinese edition I use at work is published by the 商务出版馆 and this one by the 外语教学与研究出版社. I daresay there are other versions floating around. There are a few additions to the Chinese edition. There are cultural / historical notes in some places, most notably for idioms where the tale behind the 4 characters is given, and historical events like the 八一南昌起义. Usage notes are given for some words, but not many - 把 has one, the note for 进行 points out that you can only use this for 'formal and serious' actions and that you can't 进行 an lunchtime nap (although personally I take my naps very seriously). 八 has a note on pronunciation of the tone. More interestingly, there is an additional section of 1200 new words and usages at the back of the book - 猎头 for headhunting, 平台 for (computer) platform, etc. It'd be interesting to go through these in detail, and there are many examples of English's increasing encroachment， both phonetically and through direct translations - 派队，拉力赛 being 'party' and 'rally', 牛市 and 垃圾股 'bull market' and 'junk stocks'. It's unfortunate though, that these are seperate and not integrated in the main dictionary - if you are looking it up in the dictionary then presumably you don't know it's new and will have to check both sections, as I did this morning with 回放 （rewind). The limitation of this dictionary as a Chinese-English dictionary is that it is a translation, and as the preface says 'not without its errors and oversights'. The English entries and example sentences can be stilted ('I gave him some scolding and he harboured bitter resentment'), wrong ('Peasants have shown greater enthusiasm for production now than since implementation of the policy' - 'since' should be 'before', according to the Chinese) and sometimes bear a distint ideological flavor ('The death-defying exploits of the heroes serve to bring out the Chinese people's noble unyielding character to best advantage' in the 'new' section of all places).I would hesitate before endorsing the prefaces claim that it will 'serve as a most useful reference for learners of English'. However, the problems are not so bad that they would prevent an English speaking student of Chinese from using the dictionary, and it may even provide some occasional amusement ('Eternal peace to Mr So-and-So!'). In fairness the preface makes it clear that the editors are aware of the shortcomings of the English. For the Chinese learner though, it should be ok. The Chinese entries are fine. Pinyin is given for the headword, though not the explanation. If you can't understand the Chinese, there's the English translation to look at - it might not be perfect, but you'll be able to understand it. I think this dictionary may fill a niche, but I'm not sure how big a niche. If you are currently using a Chinese-English dictionary and unsure about starting to use a Chinese-Chinese dictionary, then this, effectively a Chinese-(Chinese+English) dictionary, may make a nice stepping stone - you'd get practice reading the Chinese entries without the frustration of having to get your Chinese-English dictionary out or look up all the characters you don't understand in the explanation. At the same time, the presence of that oh-so-friendly English may tempt you into ignoring the Chinese an inch above. I'm not sure it would be of value to those who can use a Chinese dictionary with ease. The notes and extra explanations are useful, but less so than a specialized grammar book, idioms dictionary, etc. I might recommend it as a first / only dictionary, or if you thought the 1000+ 'new' entries were worth it, but if you are already using a Chinese dictionary or already have supplementary reference materials like grammar books and so on, I think you could quite happily do without. One useful thing it does have, which I haven't noticed before in a dictionary, is a table of Chinese radicals with their names. It doesn't include all, but if you ever need to know that 写 has a 秃宝盖儿, it might come in handy. I paid Y99.90 for this here in Beijing (the Chinese-Chinese version comes in at Y55). Binding seems solid, paper appears slightly better than average Chinese-printed dictionary, but you do still find yourself accidentally reading the reverse side of the page at times. Pros: Chinese and English explanations side by side - never seen that before :Effort to explain cultural / historical background Cons: Dubious English Page 1 Page 2 Roddy PS Chou Doufu - where did you see that it was based on one of the best Chinese-English dictionaries. As far as I can see the English has been produced from scratch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted November 4, 2004 at 12:18 PM Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 at 12:18 PM May I ask you why you like 朗文中文高级新词典? Take a look -> http://www.chinese-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=427&start=8 http://www.chinese-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=427&start=15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChouDoufu Posted November 4, 2004 at 02:10 PM Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 at 02:10 PM alas i was mistaken about being based on thee foreign languages university's dictionary.. same publishing company though. 'm not sure it would be of value to those who can use a Chinese dictionary with ease. The notes and extra explanations are useful, but less so than a specialized grammar book, idioms dictionary, etc. I might recommend it as a first / only dictionary, or if you thought the 1000+ 'new' entries were worth it, but if you are already using a Chinese dictionary or already have supplementary reference materials like grammar books and so on, I think you could quite happily do without. I still think it's valuable. I always felt looking up nouns in a chinese dictionary was a pain. now all you have to do is just look at the english translation and you can get a better grasp. cons: doesn't have a lot of word combinations or usage. pros: a great bridge for those who want to also try chn-chn dictionary. roddy: if you find a chn-chn electronic dictionary, please let us now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted November 4, 2004 at 03:17 PM Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 at 03:17 PM Yeah, I'm starting to feel I was kind of harsh on this dictionary. Other Chinese-English dictionaries have been based on the Chinese part of this one, also by the FLTRP. The English is new though. Roddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kentsuarez Posted November 5, 2004 at 09:22 AM Report Share Posted November 5, 2004 at 09:22 AM Thanks, Roddy, for that excellent, informative review of the dictionary. BTW, I agree that it's nice to have the names of the bushou in a list. DeFrancis has provided that in all his ABC series dictionaries; in the current Comprehensive, for example, it is Appendix IX, beginning on p.1396. Alternate colloquial names (e.g., bao3gai4 for 宀 mian2) are also given, which is great, although you may hear slightly different regional names (e.g., in Taiwan, the names I hear don't always match those in ABC). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonglan Posted November 5, 2004 at 05:05 PM Report Share Posted November 5, 2004 at 05:05 PM Thanks, Roddy. ChouDouFu, I agree with you, it's always nice to have nouns translated. Makes things much easier. In fact, I'd say the simpler or more common the word of any part of speech, the more likely the Chinese definition will seem difficult, no matter how good one's Chinese is. By contrast, weird and obscure things are much easier to understand. Anyone, is 现代汉语词典 the 'standard' 词典 on the mainland? What else might qualify as such? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChouDoufu Posted November 6, 2004 at 03:16 AM Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 at 03:16 AM You actually can't just go by the name of the dictionary. You also need to go by the publisher. One good CHN-CHN dictionary is from 商务出版社 and it's also called the 现代汉语词典。 Also by 商务 is their 应用词典 but it hasn't been updated in a few years so it might be better to wait for a new version, which could take years. another good, and new, dictionary is 现代汉语规范词典. I can't remember the publisher, but it's new, coming out only this year. it's also has a different page layout then the standard dictionary with characters on the side, instead of being on top. I actually find it easier to find if a character is on the page when they are listed this was (a vertical list）. if you want CHN-ENG, I'd go for 外语教学与研究出版社 and their 汉英词典. but a lot of people like Defrancis' ABC (i've never used it so wouldn't be qualified to comment on it. but there's a topic about it here: http://www.chinese-forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=2923 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted November 6, 2004 at 03:28 AM Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 at 03:28 AM At work (and I'll say one thing for the people at work - they know their dictionaries.) we use the 商务出版社's 现代汉语词典 which Chou Doufu mentions, and as mentioned above is the Chinese only version of the one under discussion. Roddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yonglan Posted November 6, 2004 at 02:28 PM Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 at 02:28 PM Thanks, Chou and Roddy. Roddy, about your signature "Right Click here for a Nice Clicking Noise", is that meant to be sarcasm? When I right click on it, it's the same as right-clicking anywhere else on the page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted November 6, 2004 at 03:05 PM Report Share Posted November 6, 2004 at 03:05 PM Yeah, but . . . you get a nice clicking noise, don't you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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