Contemporary Chinese Dictionary

[carlo]

Thank you skylee. I'll put it on top of my Christmas shopping list.

[skylee]

OK. Hope it won't let you down.

[elisabeth_rb]

Just a note on dictionaries and so on. There are a couple forthcoming from UK publishing houses, esp Oxford University Press. Their project is set to be a major undertaking with teams in the UK, US, the Chinese spekaing world and so on to produce a bi-lingual dictionary of the quality of their top range French and English edition. It'll take about 5 years, but it will be worth looking out for. I('m hoping to work on this project)

Just thought you'd like to know.=)

[yonglan]

It'll be out in five years? Thanks for the advanced notice

Tell them English-Chinese is what they need to focus on. There's much more of a deficit there than Chinese-English I would say.

[elisabeth_rb]

Yeah, I know - 5 years is a long time, but they're still in the process of setting up all the contracts, recruiting the English speaking team and so on. Then the work starts........ It's already behind. I haven't even been sent the recruitment stuff that I was told to expect in Aug/Sept! Make that 5 years about 7, and we'll be looking out at about the right time!!!!

It'll be both ways, Ch-En & En-Ch. I don't think there'll be a focus on either way, it will be as equal as are all their other dictionaries. Someone I work with got a decent En-Ch not too long ago, but I think it probably was designed for Chinese learners of English - as usual! Yes, I quite agree that it's time that the likes of us were recognised on the dictionary front.=(

Harper Collins are also in the process of bringing out a series of Chinese dictionaries. One edition should be hitting the shops any time, (an old Uni pal worked on it), and this series will eventually contain editions right from a Collins Gem Chinese up to a full-sized monster edition.

Also, Yip Po-Ching, (a former teacher of mine), is in the process of applying for funding for a completely bilingual dictionary and thesaurus of English and Chinese. I hope to work on that too if and when it gets off the ground as it sounds like an extremely valuable addition to the market. A dictionary that also gives synonyms, wow!=)

[Jive Turkey]

I've got the C>C>E dictionary from FLTRP. The English is a bit cumbersome in a few places, but not to the point of it getting in the way of me using it. As you might have assumed, the English editors are all Chinese, unlike bigger and better C>E dictionaries like the New Age from Commercial Press. I do like it a lot, though.

One thing I've been looking for is a good dictionary of collocations. I've seen a few, but they didn't seem very user friendly. Most were quite dated. One was a C>E from 北京出版社. The layout was clearer than others I've seen, but there weren't any usage notes and the English wasn't really necessary. Has anybody seen a good collocation dictionary with usage notes? There's got to be one out there. A Putonghua teacher friend of mine here in HK said she saw a couple up in Beijing when she was last there. Could Roddy make another trip to the bookstore to check it out for us?

[roddy]

Strangely enough, Roddy has better ideas of what to do with his time than reading dictionaries.

Roddy

PS If someone actually specifies a dictionary as worth looking at, I'll pick it up if possible and post some thoughts on here. I'm not going to speculatively pick stuff up on the off-chance it's useful though.

[yonglan]

Strangely enough, Roddy has better ideas of what to do with his time than reading dictionaries.

What could be better than reading a dictionary? Really?!

As for Mr. Turkey, Jive, if I may, I don't know of a full blown collocation dictionary for Chinese, but I do know of two items that may be of interest to you, both of them quite good.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/7800525287/ref=cm_bg_d/104-2276776-9083961?v=glance

and

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0887272436/ref=cm_bg_d/104-2276776-9083961?v=glance

This latter book is available in a traditional character version in Taiwan (though the preface will still say that it's in simplified characters)

[perjp]

Many of the entries are quite heavy on propaganda lingo, for example:

第一次国内革命战争

First Revolutionary Civil War (1924-1927), waged by the Chinese

people under the leadership of the Communist Party of China against

the imperialist and the Northern Warlords. It laid the foundation for

the first cooperation between the Communist Party of China and the

Kuomintang. The revolition soon spread to the Yangtze River valley

after the Northern Expetidion started from Guangdong in 1926, but

endedin failure due to a reactionary coup staged by the right wing

of the Kuomintang and erroneous leadership of Rightist opportunists

within the Communist Party

(I especially like the rightist opportunists part

第二次国内革命战争

Second Revolutionary Civil War (1927-1937), against the reactionary

rule of the Kuomintang, during which the Communist Party of China

opened up bases in the rural areas of many provinces, carried out

land reform, established democratic political power of workers

and peasants, founded the Chinese Worker's and Peasant's Red Army

defeated several campaingns of encirclement and suppression staged

by the Kuomintang, and successfully completed the 25,000-li Long March.

Note that similar entries for the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural

Revolution are missing

-------------------------

Also, the dictionary is available electronically. 步步高 model 3289

contains the complete 现汉双解 described in this post. When looking

at a definition you can switch between the Chinese and English

definitions by hitting a button. Its also very easy to highlight

unknown words and jump to the respective definitions.

Also, When looking at a headword you can see the full pinyin regardless

of whether you're looking at the English or the Chinese definition (as

in the paper version), unlike the top-line besta dictionaries where

the pinyin is only available in the Chinese definition (very mafan).

The dictionary can be bought for around 500 RMB, but before you run

out and buy one, keep in mind that they have carelessly left out the

radical tables. The only input methods available are Pinyin and Wubi,

so if you don't know how to pronounce the character you're screwed...

Quite a shame, since otherwise the dictionary might qualify as the

one best suited for Chinese learners available electronically in China.

[roddy]

I noticed the propaganda stuff. The translation of the preface to the Chinese edition says something along the lines of 'Work was delayed due to the interference of the Gang of Four' - they must have been a busy four, as I've also seen them blamed for the poor state of elementary school buildings in Beijing in a document from the early 80's

Roddy

[Jive Turkey]

My Chinese would be much better if it weren't for the Gang of Four.

[yonglan]

Half the fun of using mainland dictionaries is the propoganda.

[roddy]

Oh definitely, and the older the better. My 1979 Chinese-English Dictionary from the Foreign Languages College (北京外国语学院）doesn't restrict it to political terms or historical events.

[劳心] lao2xin1 work with one's mind or brains: - ~者治人， 劳力者治于人 - 这是儒家的反动观点. Those who work with their brain rule and those who work with their brawn are ruled. That is a reactionary Confucianist view.

Roddy

PS I'd like to point out, I don't spend all my time with dictionaries. I'm also fond of thesauri and phonebooks.

[in_lab]

I finally got my hands on a phonebook yesterday and am anticipating the happy hours that I can spend with it. As for thesauri, I don't even have one. I haven't found one that captures the imagination like a good dictionary.

[wushijiao]

I lost my normal dictionary this summer and bought the 现代汉语词典， this summer by default. At the time I was reading a 王朔 novel. This new dictionary picked up more more of the 4 character words. And I honestly never realized how often the 4 character words are used! Even though it's haevy to lug around, I would reccomend 现代汉语词典!

I think due to the complicated and historically dense nature of written Chinese, you owe it to yourself to buy the most comprehesive dictionary.

(I am sorry if this was answered earlier)

[yonglan]

I came to China dictionaryless(sp?), except for Langenscheidt, but that's of no help in reading. The only decent looking thing I found on the shelf at the two bookstores I went to was the tome about which this thread and post speak.

It's printed decently, though the pages are thin. The table of emperors in the back contains every emperor from the 'Five August' to the end of the Qing (with titles and dates), and then of course mentions the Republic of China which ended in 1949[sic]; has scientific stuff, names of radicals, and a little bit else.

It's true that the English is not perfect, but I haven't found it bad either. The 1,200 words at the end are just there because the Chinese dictionary put them there.

It's ok, but there are really only two reasons for buying this -- aside from mine, mentioned above -- either you like to fondle dictionaries, and who doesn't, or you want to use the English to help you with the Chinese. Other than that, with only 60,000+ words, there are bigger ones out there, and size matters.

For example, I was chatting with my boss and he mentioned some fruit that he thinks is from outside of China originally, but I have no idea what it is and this dictionary doesn't have it either.

So, let's see which dictionary can tell me what a 'shan1zhu1' is. Sorry, I can't type Chinese on this computer. Shan1 as in mountain, and Zhu1 as in pearl. We'll separate the lexocographical men from the boys.

Incidentally, this is what I was talking about earlier in this thread when I said that for a lot of words (most nouns anyway) it's better, certainly quicker and less bothersome, to use a translating dictionary.

[in_lab]

I find 山茱yu2 (I can't find the last character), fruit of medicinal cornel. But this isn't a good test of a dictionary. If you want to learn about rare flora and fauna, a Chinese encylopedia would be better. The English names of these things aren't helpful unless you are translating.

[yonglan]

Yeah, I got that one, too.

A good dictionary has whatever I want it to have, including more or less common fruits in China that I don't know. The English would be very helpful if I've seen that fruit before. That's why I like ABC Comp which I foolishly left home. It has well over 95% of the words I look up. The Chinese dictionaries I have give me 80% at best, and that number is being too kind I suspect.

[in_lab]

I agree that a good dictionary has whatever you want it to have, but understanding what a strange fruit is requires a definition and I haven't seen any Chinese-English dictionaries that have definitions that are detailed enough to be helpful for something like this. They are closer to translations. The ABC definition is better than nothing, but not much.

[yonglan]

This fruit is widely available in China. I have now seen it. For those who live in China (and maybe those in Taiwan) go to a fruit seller and ask for it.

It looks like I should know what it is (and again my boss thinks it's originally from elsewhere) but I am clueless about most things in life, including fruit names. I don't know what it is. I just want an English name, not a botanical essay on it.

I went to the capital of my province yesterday and found the ABCC in a large bookstore there and was surprised to find it also did not have it. It ought to.

To recap, it's a real fruit, readily available in China. No dictionary in creation seems to translate it's name into English. I'm starting a new thread to find out what it is as I will soon need psychological help if I don't.