Another blogger setting out to learn Chinese in 3 months

[gato]

That's probably a free chapter from the book. The full book has 200-some pages.

http://www.scotthyoung.com/lmslvidcourse/

When I first introduced holistic learning, it created a sensation. Hundreds of thousands of people have read the free articles and ebooks. Thousands more have purchased and downloaded the first edition of Learn More, Study Less, my detailed guide to learning faster.

His four books are listed on the right side of his website.

http://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/

[Gharial]

@Elizabeth: All I was trying to say was that, if language blogger-crusaders simply opted for a textbook (like most people do), which despite titles like "Chinese in 3 Months" actually mean "The judicious selection of, and thus finite and easily documented sum of, Chinese contained within this book, rather than the potentially infinite language as a whole", then there'd be no need for all the mystery, discussion etc (unless of course one then had something to say at some point about the contents or methodology of the book, which could lead to an improvement in materials available or used at least).

 

Short version: methods are nebulous and open to (unnecessary) debate, materials less so (though one can of course like or dislike materials, as they are usually widely available and open to easy-enough examination).

 

Really short version: I like a good textbook, plus a dictionary and maybe a supplementary grammar or two. Paper-based learning and all that.

 

As the humorous but ultimately very sage Englishdroid says (in a pastiche of old-fashioned posters), "(T)he simplest, cheapest and most reliable method of learning a language is to buy a grammar book and a dictionary and devote an hour each day to studying them in the privacy and security of your own home. Buy a book and stay at home today."

( https://sites.google.com/site/englishdroid2/miscellaneous/pictures )

 

Hope my post helps cure your insomnia.

[Elizabeth_rb]

Whew!  That was quite a sentence....

[Gharial]

Yes, my fingers somehow became possessed with the spirit of a garrulous Indian savant who's blogging from the afterlife about learning English.

[Elizabeth_rb]

Next websearch: exorcism!!

 

   

[bluetortilla]

 

 

When I first introduced holistic learning, it created a sensation. Hundreds of thousands of people have read the free articles and ebooks. Thousands more have purchased and downloaded the first edition of Learn More, Study Less, my detailed guide to learning faster.

 

Thanks a lot Gato. Now I really get it. You should put the above in quotes though because at first I thought that you were saying this about yourself.

 

Note that all I say here refers to the web page at the link below, and not to the blog unless stated!

 

Well, i don't what to say. I think what I've seen is shameful and I regret having to take back whatever encouraging words I said to the young man, because I don't recommend or encourage any of this shysterness. I just feel kind of foolish. And I hope no one asks me 'why' I think this guy is a shyster- because if you can't see it for yourself on the web page I really have nothing to say. So no, I know it sounds rotten, but I hope this guy does not succeed. Not in this flimflam anyway. Boy I bet get flack for saying that! : D

 

But if that gets me heat, so be it. My bark is worse than my bite. I think this is a great forum and I want it known that as a member I don't approve of encouraging in the name of Chinese language learning the kind of stuff that's on at

http://www.scotthyou.../lmslvidcourse/

 

If it's all cool with others, I agree to disagree. 

 

I don't have any comments on the blog aside to say he's doing his homework and things seem OK. One book link led me to a comment (from 2008) from someone writing 'WOW. You are the biggest rip-off artist I have ever seen. All you do is copy other peoples (sic) work. Terrible.' Well, whatever on that. There were positive comments too of course.

 

The type of marketing on the web page is just another device to prey on people's fears and insecurities. Now, I happen to like the way in which I learn just fine and if I could be twice as smart and learn twice as fast I suppose I'd have even more time for even more learning! Why would I study twice as fast in order just to stay as limited as I am now? If I already feel that study is a burden, I doubt that this book will change that in the long run. Maybe such a person just doesn't like studying that much and should do less of it. 'Get Smarter Quicker' schemes always hook you on the premise that you are actually 'dumber' now than you really are but some guru is going to give you a magic bullet to open up your full learning potential (this hook is widely used in a lot of other fields too) and it's gonna be great and fun and easy! All very upbeat and positive  (but no guarantees- that's always stated from the beginning). In other words, for a few hundred bucks or even more he's gonna change your life.

That may work for a while with some people as faith over fear goes a long way but ultimately the only way to be happy is to really know your strengths and weaknesses and create your own approach to study. A lot of it really depends on what interests you most and no one can tell you that. It's the absorption away out of the self and the ego and into the subject that make disciplines rewarding. Aggressive approaches to learning can be fun sometimes, but they're hardly sustainable. Honestly, I have no desire to be any smarter than I am. This world is infinitely stimulating as it is. What more is there to ask for? Even prettier birds perhaps? Devoting your life to learning 40,000 characters? There are things like sublime appreciation and gratitude that you will never get from some zip-through cerebial rip. 

I think a scholastic challenge like learning Chinese is much like climbing a mountain range that will only end when you decide to come down. While the vistas are magnificent, it's also like Mandella said, 'you need to learn to love climbing.'  I just know I have a long, long way to go in Chinese and I'm not about to quit, quicker or slower. I guess I have a really hard time with the idea 'study less' because I love to study . I've been doing it since I was a baby. Studying (entmy.: to be eager, show zeal, press forward, to observe) is the only way to 'learn'. To me speed learning is  kind of like saying, 'meditate twice as much with only half the breathing.' It's really not up to you. 

[Shelley]

You won't get any flack from me, just glad someone could express what i was trying to say in my post#31.

 

I don't want to rush something I enjoy.

 

Let the buyer beware....if it seems too good to be true...........double check all sources and recommendations.

 

I can't decide if he is aware he is a shyster or if he genuinely believes in what he is selling. Not that it makes much difference in the long run.

 

So be careful out there people

[imron]

Here's the link to what I have (from Imron):

Not from me. I believe it was roddy who posted that.

[bluetortilla]

 

 

Not from me. I believe it was roddy who posted that.

 

My apologies Imron. Yes, Roddy.

[Baron]

Scott's probably feeling the pressure now.

 

Perhaps we should invite him back in three months to have a live Chinese-off with some of the naysayers. If you lose you have to buy all his books. Anyone from the resident cynical contingent up for it?

[Gharial]

I'm not cynical - I think it's perfectly possible to reach a non-trivial level in any language within 3 months. I do however think that some bloggers (not sure about Scott) make the task harder than it would otherwise be by choosing inadequate materials, and overestimating what their "preferred" methods are actually capable of delivering (so it's frustrating to watch). But I guess that's a risk one has to take when trying to be or appear a "pioneer".

[Baron]

So that's a 'no' from you then?

[Gharial]

A no to what? That Scott or anyone can achieve a non-trivial level within 3 months? I answered that in my previous post (so personally I feel under no obligation to take part in any "Chinese-off" to prove or disprove whatever "point" LOL. I'm actually in agreement with the broad thesis. The only thing I'm really interested in nowadays is producing lexicographic resources of a reasonable quality, distracting though that can be in at least the short term from progressing with especially the spoken language). I will however just say that I didn't think much of the previous blogger (BL)'s documented "achievements" (that is, what else or more would one usually expect after only 3 months). Hopefully Scott will achieve better fluency than that (and it's hard to entertain the thought that he won't - I mean, call me an optimist but I don't think my ears could bear another load of stuttering circumlocutions!).

[Shelley]

I think a Chinese-off would be ok but I think we run into the same problems as before with our other 3 month learner.

 

What level did he expect to achieve? What did he actually achieve? and both questions determined by who?

 

I don't think his expected level is tight enough for him not to be able to wiggle out of failing (I don't remember him stating that he is going for any recognized exams at the end of all this).

 

I also think this is all very subjective, to someone with no knowledge of Chinese at all may be impressed with the level he reaches after three months, but an advanced student may think its baby talk.

 

He is not including characters definitely, just some maybe. IIMHO you have to include a certain amount of them to reach a useful level for reading signs, menus, and newspapers.

 

I think this thing could run and run because we have no way of quantifying his goals and his achievements.

 

I don't like the "learn something in 3 months" scenario because I think it gives false hopes to some, on the other hand I like it when learning things is demystified and people are encouraged to try.

 

So I think its a very difficult topic to take absolute sides.

 

I just hope people are smart enough to recognize a money making racket and a genuine attempt to help. This applies to loads of things in life.

 

So as I said before, let the buyer beware.

[bluetortilla]

 

 

I think it's perfectly possible to reach a non-trivial level in any language within 3 months.

 

Me too. I think the key concept behind that is called 'immersion.'

 

Methods and approaches vary; I've found they work best in combination and in ratio to a learner's predilection.

[bluetortilla]

 

 

Scott's probably feeling the pressure now.

Perhaps we should invite him back in three months to have a live Chinese-off with some of the naysayers. If you lose you have to buy all his books. Anyone from the resident cynical contingent up for it?

 

Well, one disqualification is that everybody here has already been studying for much longer than three months (well, not everybody but you know...) And according to Scott he's a 'can't guarantee' kind of guy so I'd be surprised to hear a 'you're on!' out of him. sarpah saparti upatrnya...

[Gharial]

Immersion without adequate preparation can be a waste of time or even counterproductive, certainly for the average learner. I think one needs to spend at least a few days if not weeks learning the basics of basics (pronunciation, essential phrases, core vocabulary and grammar) before HALOing in for the Mission Impossibles.

[realmayo]

If Usain Bolt knocks on my door and says that eating his revolutionary diet of bananas and Yogic berries made him run fast, and will do the same for me too, I'm sceptical: maybe he's already good at running fast because (a) he's physically gifted and (b) he's already spent years training how to run fast.

 

Similarly, people who achieve success using their own patented pay-to-read theories: is it really their theory that helped them learn something new a bit faster than most people, or are they (a) naturally gifted at learning or (b) learning their 3rd language/skill so they already have experience in how to learn.

 

Plus these guys also have much more motivation than most people because they're intent on 'proving' the efficacy of their pet theory, both to themselves and to potential customers. Oh, and (d): their theory is, over time and through trial & error, tailored to their own learning preferences, which might be way different to those of other people.

 

Therefore, however well-meaning they might be, there's a reasonable chance that what works for them won't work for others. So, I don't see the point of any Chinese-off because all it proves is someone is good at learning, not that his technique is worth the average struggling learner coughing up USD40 for.

[bluetortilla]

 

 

Immersion without adequate preparation can be a waste of time or even counterproductive, certainly for the average learner. I think one needs to spend at least a few days if not weeks learning the basics of basics (pronunciation, essential phrases, core vocabulary and grammar) before HALOing in for the Mission Impossibles.

 

Absolutely. And if I was in the remotest of locations learning a language that had never been recorded before, I would (after learning some survival nouns and verbs) try first to figure out the syntax. And that would be really hard! By immersion I didn't mean not using texts and such, I just mean devoting most of your waking life either learning, using, or communicating in the target language. And no matter how hard I stare at a character, I'm not going to know what it means until I cross-reference it to something else that I already know.

 

HALOing? lol

[querido]

Most of #118 would argue against reading about learning methods here. We could go home then.