edelweis Posted February 15, 2015 at 12:39 PM Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 at 12:39 PM savah is not - as is usually the case when people yell 'troll' - actually a troll. He's just that much more common thing, wrong, and also that even more common thing, struggling a little in a foreign language. @roddy, now it's your turn to apologize for calling me names. Roddy, this is not the same kind of place we see in many places. Be nice. (I should be studying, perhaps working on my -ang finals which I have been told sound off, ah well... can we get an option to hide some threads away in the next upgrade?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geraldc Posted February 15, 2015 at 01:43 PM Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 at 01:43 PM Not "strict" pinyin, but when you get to "nv" it's going to blow your mind 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savah Posted February 15, 2015 at 05:31 PM Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 at 05:31 PM Apocalyptic devastation? God forbid! Well, on the other hand, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xld_R2Hfi_4 No one can be sure about if he or she knows what 'zhong' is purported to represent. It will be a futile effort to determine what the medial of the syllable in question is. Let's sleep on the question for eternity. Of course, a lucid explanation plus precise ariculation, if offered, will be a welcoming event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renzhe Posted February 15, 2015 at 05:58 PM Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 at 05:58 PM It will be a futile effort to determine what the medial of the syllable in question is.No, it won't be a futile effort, your video clearly pronounces it /ʊŋ/ like I said. When I write /ʊŋ/, I am using the International Phonetic Alphabet, which very accurately represents most sounds in most languages. It is a slightly nasalised near-close near-back vowel. In some languages, it is written using an "o", in others using a "u", sometimes "y" and "e" are used for variations of it. Most languages don't even have this vowel. Only some English accents use it in some words, others don't. The final /ʊŋ/ is written -ong in pinyin, and always pronounced /ʊŋ/, with some variation inherent in any spoken language. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savah Posted February 15, 2015 at 07:00 PM Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 at 07:00 PM @renzhe said,'The final /ʊŋ/ is written -ong in pinyin, and always pronounced /ʊŋ/,,,,' How revealing and yet decisive statement you have made with regard to the critical point of the 'zhong' syllable issue! You know, we have muddled so far in the swamp of this issue, perhaps talking to each other for cross purposes all along. Better late than never. Congratulations! The case is closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geraldc Posted February 15, 2015 at 07:29 PM Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 at 07:29 PM China has many dialects. So for thousands of years there have been many different pronunciations of 中。Pinyin is used to teach people all across China the standard dialect, which is based on how they speak around Beijing. So 中=Zhong. We know exactly how Zhong sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savah Posted February 15, 2015 at 08:34 PM Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 at 08:34 PM I must not forget mentioning xiaokaka and hofmann among others as the ones to whom credit should go for contributing to the brilliant case closure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savah Posted February 15, 2015 at 08:52 PM Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 at 08:52 PM @hofmann, My first tongue is Korean. I've got a college degree in Japanese studies and passed JLPT 1 level. I am a Korean living in Seoul, South Korea. To pass JLPT 1, you are supposed to know more than 7,000 Chinese characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geraldc Posted February 15, 2015 at 08:54 PM Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 at 08:54 PM You don't have a basic understanding of pinyin which is the base of the problem. If you're looking to transliterate the pronunciation of 中 to English that's one thing, but to say that pinyin is wrong is completely another thing. Pinyin is Chinese, it has nothing to do with English. Look at the Xs etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savah Posted February 15, 2015 at 09:15 PM Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 at 09:15 PM Whoever said pinyin is wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonymoose Posted February 15, 2015 at 09:21 PM Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 at 09:21 PM To pass JLPT 1, you are supposed to know more than 7,000 Chinese characters. It's about 2000 actually, but don't let facts rain on your parade. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geraldc Posted February 15, 2015 at 09:40 PM Report Share Posted February 15, 2015 at 09:40 PM You said it was wrong in your response #23. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savah Posted February 16, 2015 at 12:41 AM Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 at 12:41 AM Not that I said so exactly, but merely complained about its 'inconsistancy', if you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savah Posted February 16, 2015 at 12:50 AM Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 at 12:50 AM more than 7,000 Chinese characters The number is about the Korean Chinese Character Test 1st level. Confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demonic_Duck Posted February 16, 2015 at 12:52 AM Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 at 12:52 AM Not that I said so exactly, but merely complained about its 'inconsistancy', if you will. It's a good thing you put the word “inconsistency” in scare quotes, because pinyin is completely internally consistent (once you've learnt the few simple rules that govern it), as previously explained many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savah Posted February 16, 2015 at 01:10 AM Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 at 01:10 AM Ok, Ok. Enough is enough. Thanks anyway. BTW, 'inconsistancy' was a typo of 'inconsistency'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savah Posted February 16, 2015 at 11:59 AM Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 at 11:59 AM https://chinese.yabla.com/chinese-pinyin-chart.php Click on 'zhong' and what will you hear? It says 'jong', never 'jung'. As I said before, no one knows what 'zhong' is. I was right when I said, 'No one can be sure about if he or she knows what 'zhong' is purported to represent.It will be a futile effort to determine what the medial of the syllable in question is.Let's sleep on the question for eternity.' Any comment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renzhe Posted February 16, 2015 at 12:04 PM Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 at 12:04 PM My comment is that you are trolling it to the max. Everybody knows what "zhong" sounds like except you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edelweis Posted February 16, 2015 at 12:19 PM Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 at 12:19 PM The roman alphabet letters are NOT used the same way in Pinyin as they are in Japanese or Korean transliteration. (if you had explained your background earlier, perhaps people would have understood you better). Pinyin is a different system. It uses the roman alphabet letters differently. It is a Chinese standard. Accept it. Learn the orthography of each syllable, learn the sound of each syllable (by hearing and saying it). Chinese schoolchildren do it. They learn each syllable like they learn Chinese characters. They don't try to analyze each letter to understand the exact pronunciation. They learn each syllable as a whole, a series of letters + a sound. Just like they learn Chinese character as a series of components/strokes + a sound. What foreigners think about it doesn't matter. (Edited.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savah Posted February 16, 2015 at 02:27 PM Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2015 at 02:27 PM @renzhe, I'm not trolling, but asking. The Yabla dictionary, as I cited above, never says "zhong' as 'tsung'. You said, although it being written as 'zhong', it represents the sound of 'tsung', when pronounced. Please explain the inconsistency between your assertion and the reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts