Aceofface Posted July 25, 2017 at 02:18 PM Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 at 02:18 PM Lu. Ceramics are a difficult one. They mostly don't age. But with Asian ceramics, fortunately the degree of skill and craftsmanship, style, colors, design, ground, slip and overall care of execution should aid. With my scroll, obvious it was made a long time ago. This aging on this can't be faked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aceofface Posted July 25, 2017 at 02:27 PM Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 at 02:27 PM Lu. Well, fortunately, you don't see as many faked old scrolls like you do ceramics with faked marks. In fact, a faked scroll would have to legitimately age to have any real compelling story. Mine is old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted July 25, 2017 at 02:31 PM Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 at 02:31 PM Yes, but it could be an old fake. There's a long tradition of it. Let us know how much it sells for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aceofface Posted July 25, 2017 at 02:45 PM Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 at 02:45 PM Sure Roddy. This is actually a little bit exciting. But this kind of stuff takes time. Museum people are very reserved, careful, doubtful. They are constantly defending their art, believe it or not, by other museum professionals. To take on a project where they have no gain is time consuming and risky and most just past on it. If I make one of them a partner in the project I will bet they would have a lot more enthusiasm for it. But, as you can imagine, fortunately there are strict guidelines for personal gain for these experts and could face criminal prosecution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted July 25, 2017 at 02:53 PM Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 at 02:53 PM "Hang on, 光緒二十八年 - bit imperial, no? Wouldn't he have been a 1902 man?" Good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aceofface Posted July 25, 2017 at 02:59 PM Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 at 02:59 PM Skylee. You are confusing me. Ha. Explain please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aceofface Posted July 25, 2017 at 03:05 PM Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 at 03:05 PM Anybody here have a guess as to what made me acquire this without knowing how to read it? Knowing the possible story behind it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lu Posted July 25, 2017 at 03:23 PM Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 at 03:23 PM 光緒二十八年 means 'the 28th year of the reign of the Guangxu Emperor'. Sun Yat-sen, however, was a revolutionary who wanted to overthrow the imperial government and make China a democracy. He was also aware and presumably familiar with the Western calendar. So it's funny that he would date this scroll using the imperial system, with the name of the emperor, instead of using a more modern system and writing '1902'. Also, a practical tip: There's a little 'Edit' button in every post you make, which you can use if you wish to add something. There is no need to make several posts in a row. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aceofface Posted July 25, 2017 at 03:30 PM Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 at 03:30 PM Maybe in 1902 his revolutionary bias wasn't fully developed. But I would rather believe that he wanted to stay true to the art form and tradition. Are scrolls since the revolution designated that way? thanks for tip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Publius Posted July 25, 2017 at 03:58 PM Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 at 03:58 PM 26 minutes ago, Aceofface said: Maybe in 1902 his revolutionary bias wasn't fully developed. By 1902, Sun had already led two failed uprisings and was living in exile. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Yat-sen#From_uprising_to_exile) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted July 25, 2017 at 04:15 PM Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 at 04:15 PM "Anybody here have a guess as to what made me acquire this without knowing how to read it?" A burning desire to meet us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aceofface Posted July 25, 2017 at 04:23 PM Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 at 04:23 PM Have to leave for a couple days. Will visit when I get back. Wish me luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
陳德聰 Posted July 25, 2017 at 04:54 PM Report Share Posted July 25, 2017 at 04:54 PM I'd be curious to know the supposed back story. To me it doesn't look like his writing at all, but then again I'm no graphologist. I thought it was a print. But I've heard even fakes can be valuable so who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aceofface Posted July 29, 2017 at 02:42 AM Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2017 at 02:42 AM I don't know the history of it. It was for sale in a thrift shop where people donate personal items. That's where I found it. It is original, not a print. Curious, because there are lots of nice donated Asian items. Is there a custom to donate in your culture? Maybe especially upon ones death? Also, the Asian population in California is probably the fastest growing of all ethnic groups. And it's huge. My high school had hardly any Asians when I attended years ago. Now it's over 60% Asian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
陳德聰 Posted July 29, 2017 at 03:01 AM Report Share Posted July 29, 2017 at 03:01 AM I wouldn't say donation is a custom, but I would say that mass production and sale of fake antiques is something of a tradition. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aceofface Posted July 29, 2017 at 03:22 AM Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2017 at 03:22 AM Yes, and the US is a destination for lots of it. Even Michaelangelo, as a young teen apprentice was encouraged to bang up some of his figure sculptures and sell as antiques. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aceofface Posted July 30, 2017 at 08:34 PM Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2017 at 08:34 PM Here's a couple of articles that highlights the authenticity issue of art, and also how the Shanghai Museum is suspect for having fakes. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-art-sothebys-idUSBREA0D0JN20140114 http://www.christies.com/Features/Chinese-Traditional-Painting-Collecting-Guide-7607-1.aspx https://www.gluckman.com/ChinaFraud.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zbigniew Posted July 30, 2017 at 11:56 PM Report Share Posted July 30, 2017 at 11:56 PM Aceofface, if you really want to get an expert opinion on this item, there are experts in this as in all areas of the antiques trade who are happy to offer an appraisal and valuation service to members of the public. They will seldom turn inquirers away, as museums inevitably will in many cases. The snag is that they will want paying for giving you the benefit of their expertise, and in the case of an item that turns out to be of low value you may end up paying considerably more for the appraisal than the item is worth. Whether you should pay for an expert appraisal really comes down to how badly you want an informed opinion on what you have. If you do choose to pay for such an opinion (and personally, if I were looking for an opinion, I would seek out an internationally recognised expert) you should think positive and see a gain in either outcome: if the item turns out be a valuable artefact you will be somewhat wealthier; if the item turns out to be of no value whatsoever, you will have learned a valuable lesson in how it is advisable to remain very sceptical about the chances of being lucky enough to stumble on priceless artefacts in charity shops, particularly when the artefact you've stumbled upon is the kind of thing you're very inexperienced in looking at in the first place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aceofface Posted July 31, 2017 at 02:08 AM Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 at 02:08 AM Zbig...... Experts all disagree. Did you read one of the links above? First, I have to fully convince myself, and I haven't yet gone into that to any real extent at all. And what good is an expert opinion if he doesn't buy it? Nice to have his support, but I have to create interest sufficient with someone who has the means to validate it to their satisfaction and then resouses to buy it. Hang around though, soon I will post more compelling pictures. Thanks though for your time and counsel. Nice to hear others approach to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lu Posted July 31, 2017 at 09:17 AM Report Share Posted July 31, 2017 at 09:17 AM 7 hours ago, Aceofface said: Nice to have his support, but I have to create interest sufficient with someone who has the means to validate it to their satisfaction and then resouses to buy it. This sounds like you're not interested in whether it is real, you just want someone with enough money to believe it's real. Not sure if that's really your intended meaning. This is not the best forum for finding such buyers though, people here are more interested in language than in buying art. There are forums for lovers of Chinese art, and some of those have members who are willing to believe things are real and buy them, even if many others tell them they're fake. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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