Chinese poetry

[Sam Addington]

A traveler longs for returning home on the Han Jiang River.

Once again, I didn't like reading too much into the poem. Why translate "long for" when the original is simply 思？

Also the original is 江汉. I believe this is a very specific location. Some translations suggested "between the Jiang and the Han rivers." However, the Han River empties into the 长江in Wuhan. Wouldn't this be the more likely scenario?

[Sam Addington]

I like the image of not being able to lock spring into the garden. I think I would incorporate that into a "final" translation. Although "lock" goes beyond the original 关.

[studentyoung]

This seems to be the standard translation. However I was trying avoid interpretation of the words as much as possible. It has often been said of Western poetry that it is philosophical and perhaps a bit pendantic whereas Chinese poetry is subtle and relies more on the reader's wits to fill in the gaps. I was trying to respect this principle. Granted "reign" is a fairly loaded word, but it is frequently applied to mountains in Western poetry. I suppose "are there" would be the best translation, but it is somehow clumsy.

In fact, the poet tried to tell that the country was collapsed while the land remained the same. The contrast was so big, that he felt every thing in front of him was so familiar while so strange.

One translation suggests an association with the word green -- the green deepens. I like this better than the idea that the city is overgrown in weeds. I guess this is due to my own observations of spring. In fact, the grass does not become "deep" until later in the summer. Spring grass is all beat down by the previous winter's snow. Of course I have no idea of the climate in Chang'an ... I assume the climate in Chang'an is fairly temperate. It is certainly not tropical. In 1967, forty years ago, the city of Detroit experienced a "war" of its own when much of the central city was burned to the ground. To this day you can still see vast areas of vacant lots in the center of the city. Although the grasses grow high in the summer, the trees have not deepened. Perhaps in the tropics trees would take over in forty years, but not in this climate. (Of course now days we have lawnmowers.)

Sigh ~ ~! At that time, the poet lamented the collapse of his country and the bitterness his country fellows suffered. He used the word “深” to describe grass and tresses overgrew everywhere, which made them look rather dense. “深” here means “too dense to see through.” In a word, the capital was desolate at that time.

“国破山河在，城春草木深。”开篇即写春望所见：国都沦陷，城池残破，虽然山河依旧，可是乱草遍地，林木苍苍。一个“破”字，使人怵目惊心，继而一个“深”字，令人满目凄然。司马光说：“‘山河在’，明无余物矣；‘草木深’，明无人矣。”（《温公续诗话》）诗人在此明为写景，实为抒感，寄情于物，托感于景，为全诗创造了气氛。

http://zhidao.baidu.com/question/5292576.html

How long was the An Shi rebellion?

It lasted for four years.

安史之乱自唐玄宗天宝十四年至唐代宗宝应元年（755～759年）结束，前后达4年之久。

http://baike.baidu.com/view/2795.htm

Was the capital totally abandoned during that period? Certainly the everyday folk remained behind to maintain somewhat the capital?

The capital Chang’an was abandoned during that period, because the royal family escaped. All most all residents there left the city. Can you image what is 十室九空?

Then again, the deep growth of trees could have all been in the poet's mind. He, after all, was away at war.

But he was caught on the way to follow the royal family by the rebel army, and he was taken to Chang’an.

唐肃宗至德元载（756）六月，安史叛军攻下唐都长安。七月，杜甫听到唐肃宗在灵武即位的消息，便把家小安顿在鄜州的羌村，去投奔肃宗。途中为叛军俘获，带到长安。因他官卑职微，未被囚禁。《春望》写于次年三月。

http://baike.baidu.com/view/2795.htm

A traveler longs for returning home on the Han Jiang River.

Once again, I didn't like reading too much into the poem. Why translate "long for" when the original is simply 思？

He was dying to go home, but he couldn’t. I think “think of” seems not so strong to express his feelings.

诗人长期飘零，历尽艰辛，至老仍如浮云行止无定，心中颇多感慨。

http://cache.baidu.com/c?m=9d78d513d9d431ab4f9c93690c66c0161343f3672bd7a1020fa2843be5732b32501690af60624e0b89833a2516ae3a41f7a77034661420c0da83c90dcabbe57f79cf3034074dda5c548045fa8a1b79943dd10bf4f95eb3fdf63584aea589990b&p=80769a4686cc41ad43bbf8261c55&user=baidu

Also the original is 江汉. I believe this is a very specific location. Some translations suggested "between the Jiang and the Han rivers." However, the Han River empties into the 长江in Wuhan. Wouldn't this be the more likely scenario?

Sorry, I made a mistake. I thought that at that time he was on the Hanjiang River. But according to the fact, he was in Gong’an, Hubei province.

大历三年（768）秋，杜甫漂泊至湖北公安。这里地处长江、汉水之间，所以诗题作《江汉》。

http://cache.baidu.com/c?m=9d78d513d9d431ab4f9c93690c66c0161343f3672bd7a1020fa2843be5732b32501690af60624e0b89833a2516ae3a41f7a77034661420c0da83c90dcabbe57f79cf3034074dda5c548045fa8a1b79943dd10bf4f95eb3fdf63584aea589990b&p=80769a4686cc41ad43bbf8261c55&user=baidu

Cheers!

[Sam Addington]

So I take it you feel it is okay to supply the meanings the poet only alludes to in the original.

[realmayo]

Just wanted to say thanks to "Student" who posted a couple of pages back recommending this book:

"How to Read Classical Chinese Poetry: a Guided Anthology" by Zong-qi Cai (ed)

http://www.amazon.com/How-Read-Chinese-Poetry-Anthology/dp/0231139411/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205522981&sr=8-1

Initial thoughts: I like it a lot. Appears to offer a skin-deep guide to the 100s of years of classical chinese poetry, via presenting and writing about 140-ish individual (and I assume representative) poems. A fairly unintimidating way in to all this stuff.

[hello_chris]

the 诗，especially the 词 or 曲 used to be the lyrics of ancient songs, people sang them with different pattens of tune and rhythm.

So I guess the songs we sing nowadays may become poems appreciated by people after thousands of years .

[yu yan]

Any chance to get a wise translation into English, perhaps with some notes for the idea even of the following poem of Su Shi:

和子由渑池怀旧

苏轼

人生到处知何似，应似飞鸿踏雪泥。

泥上偶然留指爪，鸿飞那复计东西。

老僧已死成新塔，坏壁无由见旧题。

往日崎岖还知否，路长人困蹇驴嘶。

Would be very happy!

[trien27]

但願人長久 千里共嬋娟

is actually from a poem by 蘇軾 Su Shi AKA Su Dongpo 蘇東坡:

明月幾時有？ 把酒問青天。

不知天上宮闕， 今夕是何年。

我欲乘風歸去，唯恐瓊樓玉宇，高處不勝寒。

起舞弄清影，何似在人間。

轉朱閣，低綺戶，照無眠。

不應有恨，何事長向別時圓？

人有悲歡離合，月有陰晴圓缺，此事古難全。

但願人長久，千里共嬋娟。

　　　　　　　　　　　　　　~ 蘇軾．〈水調歌頭〉

Edited September 27, 2008 at 02:47 AM by trien27
additional information

[Philee]

游园不值 A Failed Visit to the Garden

应怜屐齿印苍苔 He must becry footprints on the moss!

小扣柴扉久不开 Lightly tapping on the gate, no response --

春色满园关不住 Spring in the garden cannot be contained.

一枝红杏出墙来 The pink apricot peeps above the wall.

Great translation to my amazement.

[trien27]

和子由渑池怀旧

Translation

To reminisce about the olden days around the ponds and rivers in Shandong province with 子由 [this is the name of another Chinese poet].

和 = and ; with or accompanying someone

渑 = name of a river in Shandong Province

池 = ponds

怀旧 = to reminisce about olden days

Edited October 14, 2008 at 02:46 AM by trien27
missing quotes

[chenpv]

I came across this Li Bai's poem in the first chapter of《桃花扇》and like it instantly. Different from his other works soaked with breath of alcohol, Li Bai seemed to show his detachment from the world in this one in soberness.

山中问答

问余何意栖碧山，

笑而不答心自闲。

桃花流水杳然去，

别有天地非人间。

[skylee]

his other works soaked with breath of alcohol

哎喲我以為那叫豪邁。

[Javer Chen]

I prefer

蛾兒(儿)雪柳黃金縷

Caterpiller (moth's son) weaving golden threads in the willow.

this sentence is depicting the beautiful girl's apperance. her hairstyle is 敛双蛾(very popular hairstyle at that time), her skin is white as snow(肌肤胜雪 white skin is one of aesthetic standards). her waist is as thin as a willow (柳腰轻摆)and she is in a golden silk cloth.

so how about just consider on translating this with the way how an english speaking country depict a very beatiful woman?

Edited December 31, 2008 at 02:52 AM by Javer Chen

[Javer Chen]

難為情 usually means "embarrased". But in this context, I think it means 情何以堪 (which is even harder to translate) ... difficult to withstand/bear the torture of love/emotion???

BTW, the poem is a bit unique as it contains 3-worded, 5-worded and 7-worded phrases.

actually, it's not that unique. Chinese call this form of poet 三五七言诗:

..........秋風清　 秋月明

....落葉聚還散 寒鴉棲復驚

相知相見知何 此時此夜難為情

Here are some other 三五七言诗:

.............木叶黄 花渐褪

......流水与山静 黛影随心碎

车与江水相低昂 寂寂虫吟人不寐

.............灯影残 珠帘垂

......弱水自向东 相思渐成灰

五粮酒好醉难欢 依稀梦影还相随

.............风一缕 愁一缕

.......树静栖野鹭 水冷隐河鱼

未有江枫映渔火 但闻村笛断肠曲

.............小苑静 漏断催

.......月残树影乱 岸远水声微

秋风吹尽花溅泪 且待冬心听雪醉

.............天欲晓 思未了

.......秋风瘦花影 流水乱岸草

相逢未肯轻言笑 却叹青丝与花少

Edited January 7, 2009 at 02:39 AM by Javer Chen

[Outofin]

《韦讽录事宅观曹将军画马图》

杜甫

国初已来画鞍马，神妙独数江都王。

将军得名三十载，人间又见真乘黄。

曾貌先帝照夜白，龙池十日飞霹雳。

内府殷红玛瑙盘，婕妤传诏才人索。

盘赐将军拜舞归，轻纨细绮相追飞。

贵戚权门得笔迹，始觉屏障生光辉。

昔日太宗拳毛騧，近时郭家狮子花。

今之新图有二马，复令识者久叹嗟。

此皆骑战一敌万，缟素漠漠开风沙。

其余七匹亦殊绝，迥若寒空动烟雪。

霜蹄蹴踏长揪间，马官厮养森成列。

可怜九马争神骏，顾视清高气深稳。

借问苦心爱者谁，后有韦讽前支遁。

忆昔巡幸新丰宫，翠华拂天来向东。

腾骧磊落三万匹，皆与此图筋骨同。

自从献宝朝河宗，无复射蛟江水中。

君不见金粟堆前松柏里，龙媒去尽鸟呼风。

Love this 龙媒去尽鸟呼风. The experience of a great dynasty’s descending must feel very sad.

[skylee]

There was a bright moon here last night. Looking at it my first thought was -

月上柳梢頭　人約黃昏後

followed by -

明月幾時有　把酒問青天　……　但願人長久　千里共嬋娟

and then -

月明星稀　烏鵲南飛

(Cao Cao's poem is really quite good.) And then I realised that it was the middle of the last lunar month of the year.

There are a lot of poems about the moon and I suppose these are my favourites.

[trien27]

月上柳梢頭　人約黃昏後

is actually from 歐陽修's poem〈生查子〉:

去年元夜時，花市燈如晝。

月上柳梢頭，人約黃昏後。

今年元夜時，月與燈依舊。

不見去年人，淚滿春衫袖。

明月幾時有　把酒問青天　……　但願人長久　千里共嬋娟

is actually from 蘇軾 Su Shi AKA Su Dongpo 蘇東坡's poem 〈水調歌頭〉 :

明月幾時有？ 把酒問青天。

不知天上宮闕， 今夕是何年。

我欲乘風歸去，唯恐瓊樓玉宇，高處不勝寒。

起舞弄清影，何似在人間。

轉朱閣，低綺戶，照無眠。

不應有恨，何事長向別時圓？

人有悲歡離合，月有陰晴圓缺，此事古難全。

但願人長久，千里共嬋娟。

　　　　　　　　　　　　　　

月明星稀　烏鵲南飛

is from 曹操, whose personal name was 孟德's poem 〈短歌行〉:

對酒當歌，人生幾何？

譬如朝露，去日苦多。

慨當以慷，憂思難忘。

何以解憂？唯有杜康。

青青子衿，悠悠我心。

但為君故，沈吟至今。

呦呦鹿鳴，食野之苹。

我有嘉賓，鼓瑟吹笙。

明明如月，何時可輟？

憂從中來，不可斷絕。

越陌度阡，枉用相存。

契闊談讌，心念舊恩。

月明星稀，烏鵲南飛，繞樹三匝，何枝可依？

山不厭高，海不厭深。

周公吐哺，天下歸心。

感慨雖有雄心壯志，至今卻仍一事無成，寄人籬下。

There are a lot of poems about the moon....

Actually, there's too many poems about the moon in classical Chinese poetry.

Edited January 31, 2010 at 06:43 PM by trien27

[skylee]

trien27, thanks for all the actually's. Although I suppose 曹操 did not write "感慨雖有雄心壯志，至今卻仍一事無成，寄人籬下。"

[trien27]

Although I suppose 曹操 did not write "感慨雖有雄心壯志，至今卻仍一事無成，寄人籬下。"

So who do you think supposedly wrote it, if it wasn't 曹操? I would think it might be his third & youngest son 曹植 who's a poet himself. Doesn't hurt to add a line to dad's poem, right?

[trien27]

唐

崔护

桃花

去年今日此门中　

人面桃花相映红

人面不知何处去　

桃花依旧笑春风