are Chinese people really that unfriendly to foreigners?

[Lu]

Define "race".

Well, there's Caucasian, African, Mongolian... if I'm getting the terms right, and probably a few more, I don't know, and of course tons of people who are mixed. People are not the same. Africans don't get sunburn easily, Mongolian people usually have straight hair. This is not a definition, but surely you are familiar with the concept. Racial discrimination is wrong, being aware of racial differences can be useful.

[renzhe]

That's one definition.

There are many others. AFAIK, there is no such concept in Chinese, neither 种族 nor 族 would make people think of the exact three categories you names, and Japanese and Koreans wouldn't be considered the same 族. 人种 can also refer to ethnic group.

Merriam-Webster defines "race" as "2 a: a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock b: a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics".

So, while there are some differences between populations (on average), the concept of "race" is extremely wishy-washy, and without a consistent, agreed-upon, testable definition.

What exactly makes one belong to a race is usually based on the prevalent local prejudice and not scientific evaluation.

Edited May 30, 2009 at 08:28 PM by renzhe

[chrix]

Yeah, I'd be careful with categories such as "Mongol". Excerpt from Wikipedia:

Geneticist Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza*) claims that there is a genetic division between East and Southeast Asians. In a like manner, Zhou Jixu agrees that there is a physical difference between these two populations. Other geneticists have found evidence for three separate populations, carrying distinct sets of non-recombining Y chromosome lineages, within the traditional Mongoloid category: North Asians, Han Chinese/Southeast Asians, and Japanese. The complexity of genetic data have led to doubt about the usefulness of the concept of a Mongoloid race itself, since distinctive East Asian features may represent separate lineages and arise from environmental adaptations or retention of common proto-Eurasian ancestral characteristics.

The concept originated with a now disputed typological method of racial classification, All the -oid racial terms (e.g. Mongoloid, Caucasoid, Negroid, etc.) are now often controversial in both technical and non-technical contexts and may sometimes give offense no matter how they are used. This is especially true of "Mongoloid" because it has also been used as a synonym for persons with Down Syndrome, and in American English as a generic insult meaning "idiot". Contrary to popular beliefs, Mongoloid refers to diverse ethnical groups, and not of a homogeneous group.

Of course there are differences between different groups of humans. But there's no scientifically accepted way of sorting them into "races". That seems to be a relict of 19th century Europe....

*) Cavalli-Sforza is a famous geneticist from Stanford best known for his classification of humankind based on the genetic makeup.

[imron]

Note the difference between Mongolian and Mongoloid. Two very different words.

[chrix]

It was clear from the context that Lu was referring to "Mongoloid" here. "Mongolian" usually refers to the nationality and wouldn't make sense here in this context. If "Mongolian" is used as a racial term, the same problem regarding its unclear definition applies IMO.

[dalaowai]

Parisians were extremely rude to me, even though I'm a native French-Canadian speaker. I will never go to Paris because of that. Some waiters would even switch to broken English instead of trying to understand. Other parts of France, magically no problems understanding me. haha

[pandaxiongmao]

It this normal? Are all the Chinese people in Chinatown the same?

How do you know the people you talked about were actually Chinese? When I lived in Boston around 10 years ago, it seemed like half of staff in restaurants were Asian, but not Chinese. Vietnamese was particularly common. Given the clientele, they spoke Chinese, but that doesn't mean they were Chinese.

[chrix]

why do you consider 華僑 from Vietnamese not to be Chinese? Some of them even don't speak any Vietnamese, though I don't know how common this is. Nothing wrong with multiple identities. (I mean here in Houston it's also hard to tell if we should call our Chinatown "Vietnamtown" instead , but I think the multiple identities thing would work here as well)

Or are you telling me that ethnic Vietnamese from Vietnam (or whatever the correct term is) acquired Cantonese speaking abilities in the US by virtue of running a restaurant here? (If this were true, I'd find that awesome, but I'd doubt it). I would think it is more likely that they spoke the language already in Vietnam.

[Kessha]

Well as my girlfriend is chinese, has chinese relatives and such d'uh (of course) and grew up around chinese - went to HK pretty often, she could very well tell if people were chinese or what not. So leave that to her to differentiate. I don't think we are so dumb not to know who is chinese or vietnamese. A similar case would be "uh are they German or Austrian" - only cuz they speak german - well there's a big difference in their appearance and how they talk and such. So yeah we can differentiate. No biggy here.

[BrandeX]

http://alllooksame.com/

Both my Chinese and Korean students do abysmally at this one. No one believes my Korean friend isn't Chinese even when speaking broken putonghua.

Regardless, over here, it is less common to be around foreigners than in Chinatowns, so people's attitudes towards foreigners will be different.

[NiFei]

I've never been to China. However, my teacher insists that most Chinese people are very intrigued by foreigners, especially the younger generations. But I'm sure that like any other country, there will be a few who might be prejudiced towards foreigners; these are usually the older generations, at least in most cases, not every single one.

It cannot be completely avoided, unfortunately.

[flameproof]

That posting puzzles me a bit. Two girls go to a restaurant, they are lesbian, but didn't do any lez performance. So sexual orientation really does not matter here. And even if being a little "touchy" it wouldn't matter. In China you see straight guys walking holding hands. Girls even more so.

So I wonder if you just project presumed hostility in whatever happened there. Chinese people usually talk very loudly. I remember that story, after a western guy heard a girl screaming very agitated in the phone, and asking her what's wrong - her reply: oh, I just wished happy birthday to my sister.

Rude waiters? Can happen, maybe they had a bad day. Or a very good day with somebody else. Or maybe you had a bad day?

You can slap China really on many aspects, but not really on this one. I find PRCnese helpful and warm. I mean, not helpful in the way that they come towards you and offer help - that never happens in China. But if you ask for help they usually melt and get very helpful. Not all, but many. Ok, language plays some role too.

Chinese people are very intrigued by foreigners

They are. And they really enjoy chatting a word or two with a foreigner. Specially taxi drivers get chatty - and you are less likely to get cheated too!

[chrix]

flameproof, the OP already said that her GF is Cantonese....

[flameproof]

the OP already said that her GF is Cantonese....

Which means.................................. ?

[chrix]

which implies that they'd be familiar enough with the culture/mentality making it improbable that this was a misunderstanding of some sort....

[gato]

You can slap China really on many aspects, but not really on this one. I find PRCnese helpful and warm.

They were in Boston Chinatown, probably a bit different from the PRC.

[flameproof]

I am skeptical. Sounds like an isolated incident to me. What her GF is doesn't really matter as we don't don't get her comment here. So we have no idea what she thinks.

Anyway, I am not familiar with any Chinatown as we don't have them here. They might be quite different from China and we don't know the whole story. I am just skeptical.

When I came to China I found people very rude. I am not sure if people changed, or I changed, or both changed. Now I feel people are quite warm.

I am a big Japan fan and I find Japan nicer in many areas (travel, transport, food, quality of life and and and), but in terms of people I find Japan "cold". Nice in a professional way, but cold. PRCnese ore honestly nice (if nice).

They were in Boston Chinatown, probably a bit different from the PRC.

Quite possible. I guess it's Cantonese dominated. No further ideas.

[yonglin]

Don't know how relevant it is, but thought I'd shove it in here since flameproof's post got me thinking about it:

As a (continental) European, I sometimes feel that people in North America (US, Canada), have very high expectations on behaviour/politeness. As a European, I expect wait staff (and service workers, more generally) to do what they're there to do, and I perceive exaggerated niceness (both on the behalf of service workers and customers) as ingratiating and frowned upon - like pretending there is a personal (friendship type) relationship when there is none.

Some anecdotal evidence in support of this theory: my mum (hitting her sixties, very European in mind) is quite annoyed by the most "overtly" Americans for exactly this reason, my partner (raised in North America) has repeatedly pointed out to me that I don't have to be so rude to service staff, my Canadian classmate whose mother immigrated from Germany said she'd always been embarassed of her mother's rudeness as a child.

Overall, I find that the (mainland) Chinese approach is more similar to the European: service workers are simply there to do their job. I interpret their attitude not as rude and detached but as straightforward and honest.

Of course, in all places, every restaurant worker is going to be more courteous towards regulars, and I think that herein lies the OP's problem. I would imagine that in the Chinese restaurant she visited, the service provided to "outsiders" is detached whilst the service provided to regulars is more courteous and more akin to the "standard” North American service level.

[chrix]

yes, but the OP is from Austria. German-speaking lands have an image of being service deserts (Servicewüste).

[gato]

Overall, I find that the (mainland) Chinese approach is more similar to the European: service workers are simply there to do their job. I interpret their attitude not as rude and detached but as straightforward and honest.

I'm annoyed by the excessive forced courtesy in Starbucks in Shanghai. I understand that they have a Taiwanese management. I think they are doing the niceness indoctrination.