Cantonese !!

[querido]

The number of Cantonese words I know is now back to where it was a year ago, but I know them much better now; my flashcarding sessions are all-Cantonese and my lessons with my teacher - reading aloud, asking and answering questions in Cantonese about the text - can be as close to all-Cantonese as she chooses. All the tools and materials are in place and we've been flowing pretty smoothly for a few months.

 

Here is the chapter we did today. Recognize anything? I regret that I can't share more of this.

 

你中意邊個多啲？

 

第一章

謝紅：我喺美國等你

 

1988年8月6日，謝紅要坐飛機去美國讀書。啱啱起床，方新就幫佢準備行李，佢要帶嘅嘢好多，但係謝紅認為所帶嘅嘢，佢都拎得到，因為美國嘅嘢好貴，唔想响嗰度買。 幾年嚟，謝紅一直好努力學習英文，希望可以去美國讀書同工作 。佢希望自己去美國以後，方新要多學英文，早啲可以喺美國見面。但係方新覺得，雖然去美國可以學到好多嘢，但而家佢唔想去，佢有自己嘅打算。

方新喺大學時學嘅係中文，後來中意咗電腦，但係嗰陣時電腦好貴，而且中文軟件好少，基本都係英文嘅，中國人用起嚟唔方便。方新就下決心，要做一種大家中意用嘅中文軟件。佢而家唔想去美國，亦係因為呢個原因。但係謝紅唔同意，認為仲係去美國實際啲。食咗早餐，方新就送謝紅去機場，方新睇住佢上機，心諗：佢哋唔知幾時，先至可以再見面喇！

[Flickserve]

I make make a bit of it out. Note that I haven't really studied Cantonese formally (just ten one to one lessons about 3months after arriving) and the rest picked it up by immersion in Hong Kong.

Which do you like better? (A better contextual translation would be "A matter of choice")

Tse Hong: I will wait for you in America.

July the sixth, 1988. Tse Hong needs to take a flight as she going to America for studies. Just after getting up, Fong Sun helped with packing the luggage. (Not sure what 嘅嘢means so can't interpret this part but whatever it is, it is really expensive in America and Tse Hong wants to take in order not to buy it in the States). For some years, Tse Hong has been putting a lot of effort in learning English in the hope of going to America to study and work there. She hopes that after going to America, Fong Sun will want to learn more English and they would be able to meet up earlier. However, Fong Sun feels that although one can learn a lot in America, he doesn't yet want to go.

Comments:

嘅嘢 - I think I would know this if I heard it. I am going to leave the second paragraph to someone else. But the gist of it talks about Fong Sun's experience with computer software, difference of opinion with Tse Hong and taking Tse Hong to the airport.

From the expressions, I think your teacher and text are not in Hong Kong. Is that correct? It seems slightly different to what I am used in Hong Kong. Then again, I don't read Chinese/Cantonese that much so I could be wrong.

[Publius]

Yeah, it feels like the text was originally written in Mandarin and later adapted into Cantonese.

[陳德聰]

嘅嘢 <- ge3 je5

possessive marker + generic word for "things"

 

美國 嘅 嘢 - American things

自己 嘅 打算 - one's own plan

學 嘅 係 中文 - what he studied was Chinese

 

I also feel that the text feels kind of oddly sprinkled with some Mandarin flavour.

[querido]

That's very perceptive of you guys. It's a summary, by a native Cantonese speaker from Guangzhou who is also fluent in Mandarin, of materials originally written in SWC. We decided to do this because I had studied them previously in Mandarin. 

 

Flickserve, your translation is good. :-) She's taking a lot of things because she doesn't want to buy them again in the U.S., where they would be more expensive.

[Flickserve]

啱啱起床，方新就幫佢準備行李 - this part makes it feel like a mainland style Cantonese.

起床 infrequently heard。

準備行李 also infrequent. Try 執行李。

[querido]

Thank you for the suggestions. Maybe they will help someone. 

Myself, I have found that my native Cantonese speaking friends differ a lot from one another and I can't handle that, so I cast my fate with my teacher at this time. Like myself she is much older than the average student and that might be the source of some of the differences.

[陳德聰]

Use 起身.

[Flickserve]

佢要帶嘅嘢好多. You can ask her 佢要帶好多嘢. Is there a sight difference in the meaning or the emphasis ? Both sound ok but seem to have a subtle difference.

[querido]

She replied: "完全一樣, 但是表達方式不同而已".

[lips]

"但是表達方式不同而已".

In Cantonese:

“但係表達方式唔同啫。”

 

其實係有啲唔同，如果有人問你：“佢帶嘅嘢多定少呀？” 你會答：“佢帶嘅嘢好多。”

[陳德聰]

Yeah the focus of the sentences are different in those cases. I am always hesitant to believe anyone who says two different things are exactly the same meaning.

[querido]

Thank you everybody. :-)

 

1. 準備(行李) was the word used in the text, as it's a graded reader and they haven't introduced 執 yet. But I asked my teacher and she likes 執行李 better, so I changed it.

2. I kept her 佢要帶嘅嘢好多 because I also think it's a little better in that sentence (but I'm not prepared to explain why, just as she was maybe not inclined to explain it to me either).

3. She still likes 起床 better than 起身, but I like the latter better. So I changed the flashcard to 起身 with 起床 (which I've already learned) in parenthesis with the "國" caveat.

[Flickserve]

I agree there are variations in the expression between younger and older Cantonese speakers. Once, I went to a meeting thinking I can reasonably cope with the Cantonese. It wasn't a high powered meeting but the others were significantly older than me. I came away thinking I only knew less than 50% of what was said whereas normally I would get up to 75%.

Having said that, after studying some Mandarin, my comprehension of Cantonese has improved. I am able to recognise more Cantonese words after learning their Mandarin equivalent. That's quite interesting. :-)

[陳德聰]

I often am suspicious of my own vocabulary, especially if I know it was not recently learned, because some of it is actually 台山 regional vocab. In that respect, sometimes my knowledge of Mandarin is much closer to being helpful for my Cantonese than my own family. This is why I actually had to google 起身 before posting it because I couldn't be sure if I was giving a proper "standard" Cantonese term.

 

落水 <- 下雨 -> 落雨 for example is a triad that occasionally throws me off. Obviously 下雨 is Mandarin, but I often cannot remember whether 落水 or 落雨 is "proper" Cantonese, so I rely on Mandarin to help me and tip the scales toward 落雨.

[Flickserve]

落水 <- 下雨 -> 落雨

落水 is very common in cantonese speakers in Malaysia. A lot of variation exists in Cantonese. I have heard people say Guangzhou and HK (without the loanwords) cantonese are more 'standard' Cantonese. I think that refers to the pronunciation more than anything.

Another sidetrack: GZ cantonese are more likely to say 區別 & 分別 whereas in HK everybody just says 分別。

[lips]

In normal conversation one never says 起床.  It's always 起身。In writing it's the other way around.  So if you say 起床 people will understand and it's not "wrong".  Like 早上 (the written form) and 朝頭早 or 朝早 (the  spoken forms).

[querido]

I advise anyone getting started in Cantonese to be prepared to exercise a broader tolerance for deviation from dictionaries and other authorities.

[Publius]

In normal conversation one never says 起床.  It's always 起身。In writing it's the other way around.

Yup. That's a major problem when I was trying to learn Cantonese, as my friend suggested, by watching TVB dramas. I remember once hearing something like 'baak6 gaa3 baan2'. The context is that the heroine is going to attend her cousin's wedding, but she doesn't want to meet her aunt, because 她那麼勢利 -- at least that's what the subtitle says. It took me like half an hour to figure out what is the word she actually used. It's 白鴿眼.

And there are colloquial expressions even a native speaker may not know how to write, like 冚唪唥.

[lips]

I once heard from someone who studied Chinese in university with specialization in Cantonese that *any* Cantonese character can be written out with an authentic (not the made-up characters used today) Chinese character, albeit many of these are old and archaic.  Also many of the common Cantonese are written incorrectly today.  For example, 打爛沙盤問到篤 should really be 打爛砂盆璺到豚.