Coronavirus - those in China, and general discussion

[mungouk]

2 minutes ago, Dawei3 said:

Serbia & Hungary are giving Chinese vaccines to their populations, but these countries aren't part of the EU

 

Hungary has been a member of the EU since 2004; Serbia has been trying to apply for a while but is still in the queue.

 

Orbán (Hungary) goes ahead and does whatever he likes, as seems to be the vogue in certain places these days.  Regardless of his (or your) politics, you can see why national leaders would prioritise their own citizens over EU unity. 

 

Interesting to see how former Soviet countries are connecting with Russia and China on this issue... "Vaccine Diplomacy" is definitely happening.

 

[mungouk]

11 minutes ago, Dawei3 said:

In the studies of the Pfizer & Modern vaccines, more than 33% of participants receiving the placebo reported adverse reactions (and they just got placebos). 

Hang on, how does that even work (considering that nobody understands the placebo effect)...?

33% of people getting a jab of saline solution (or maybe meningitis vaccine — is that really a placebo?) in the upper arm report that they had a sore arm, or what?

 

 

[xinoxanu]

24 minutes ago, mungouk said:

Hang on, how does that even work (considering that nobody understands the placebo effect)...?

33% of people getting a jab of saline solution (or maybe meningitis vaccine — is that really a placebo?) in the upper arm report that they had a sore arm, or what?

 

1. A Psychogenic/Psychosomatic reaction.
2. An actual physical reaction to being stabbed by a needle.
3. A random coincidence (which is not so random after all).
4. Lying.
5. Bad/insufficient data or difficult to contrast.

[xinoxanu]

19 hours ago, mungouk said:

"Vaccine Diplomacy" is definitely happening.

 

No, not really:

 

https://thediplomat.com/2019/04/how-hungarys-path-leads-to-chinas-belt-and-road/

https://www.globalconstructionreview.com/news/serbia-get-third-chinese-built-motorway/

https://www.ft.com/content/d3d56d20-5a8d-11e9-9dde-7aedca0a081a

 

..."The first one's free"

[realmayo]

20 hours ago, Dawei3 said:

The NYT notes "Last week, Sinopharm’s chairman, Liu Jingzhen, announced that some 100,000 people have taken the company’s vaccine and none have shown any adverse reactions so far."  Zero adverse reactions.  Zero.  This just doesn't happen.  In the studies of the Pfizer & Modern vaccines, more than 33% of participants receiving the placebo reported adverse reactions (and they just got placebos).  To achieve zero adverse actions, Sinopharm must have done close to zero surveillance of those receiving the vaccines. 

 

At first glance this looks like sloppiness, though whether you blame the NYT or the Sinopharm chairman I don't know. All the press releases in English from that time say they reported no serious adverse reactions. Watching an edited video of the guy speaking, first he says there were 没有任何副反应, later he says there were 没有一列严重的不良反应。

[Dawei3]

On 3/23/2021 at 1:11 PM, mungouk said:

33% of people getting a jab of saline solution (or maybe meningitis vaccine — is that really a placebo?) in the upper arm report that they had a sore arm, or what?

The placebo would have been just saline.  This is from Pfizer's Dec 10, 2020 presentation to FDA on their vaccine:  Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee December 10, 2020 Presentation - BNT162b2 Vaccine Candidate Against COVID-19   p.29:

 

Notably, placebo side effects such as fatigue, headache and chills were much more strongly imagined in 16-55 year old groups than in 55-85 year old groups (I would have guessed the latter group would have reported much more fatigue and headache and I would have guessed wrong).   This was from a huge study.  

 

How does it happen?  Pfizer would have informed all study participants of the potential side effects of the vaccine, such as fatigue, headache, chills, etc.  Participants didn't know whether they got the vaccine or placebo.  Younger people must have been more susceptible to the power of suggestion.  A similar finding occurred in the Moderna study.

The full documents are here:

https://www.fda.gov/advisory-committees/advisory-committee-calendar/vaccines-and-related-biological-products-advisory-committee-december-10-2020-meeting-announcement

 

 

On 3/24/2021 at 10:02 AM, realmayo said:

没有任何副反应, later he says there were 没有一列严重的不良反应。

Thanks!  It illustrates the importance of being careful with words.  

[mungouk]

Foreigners in Shanghai and Beijing are now being officially offered COVID jabs (Chinese vaccines only), at around 100 RMB a time.

 

How Foreigners in Beijing Can Get Vaccinated: Step-by-Step

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/5b9zTVY5UYySg0NDIqfgog

 

Covid Vaccination Registration Now Open, Spaces Filling Up Quickly.

https://www.smartshanghai.com/articles/activities/covid-vaccination-registration-now-open-spaces-filling-up-qr-code-inside

 

update: According to the comments section on this Expat Focus post, foreigners have also been getting vaccinated in Wuhan, Kunshan, Nanning, Xiangtan, Chengdu, Hangzhou, Chongqing and Harbin, although some of these could be priority groups who were booked in by their employer. 

[Dawei3]

On 3/30/2021 at 10:40 PM, mungouk said:

Foreigners in Shanghai and Beijing are now being officially offered COVID jabs

The following provides a wide ranging summary of quarantine requirements across cities: 

Foreigners' guide to quarantine and getting vaccinated in China - Nikkei Asia

[889]

Reports now that China is relaxing the "Chinese vaccine rule" for those fully vaccinated in the U.S. with Pfizer, Moderna or J&J.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/china-vaccine-passport-visas-covid/2021/04/20/8a6422d0-a14e-11eb-8a6d-f1b55f463112_story.html

[Flickserve]

https://www.news.gov.hk/eng/2021/05/20210504/20210504_103303_546.html

 

Non-HK residents travelling into HK from China (mainland and non-Chinese) hopefully won't need quarantine. However, it's not reciprocal.

[889]

Procedures will no doubt be at least as complicated as those for HK residents returning from the Mainland. You can study them here, if you have plenty of time. They are quite a remarkable example of bureaucrats doing their best to make the scheme impractical.

 

https://www.coronavirus.gov.hk/eng/return2hk-scheme.html

 

In short, nothing to get too excited about.

[Dawei3]

It will be interesting if China continues tight controls on those entering the country.  It's understandable that they want to keep the virus under control (and they've successfully done so).  On the other hand, Statista reports China suffered a loss of almost $1 trillion due to less international and domestic tourists.  $1 trillion is such a huge #, it's hard to think about.  Tourism represented 11.6% of China's economy.

 

https://www.statista.com/chart/24681/travel-and-tourisms-contribution-to-gdp/#:~:text=The travel and tourism sector,49.1 percent compared to 2019.&text=This chart shows travel and,and share of national GDP.

 

I expect the tight controls will continue.  I hope the Washington Post article is correct and those fully vaccinated will be able to enter more easily.

 

[abcdefg]

1 hour ago, Dawei3 said:

On the other hand, Statista reports China suffered a loss of almost $1 trillion due to less international and domestic tourists.  $1 trillion is such a huge #, it's hard to think about.  Tourism represented 11.6% of China's economy.

 

Interesting! Thank you! I cannot help but wonder what the breakdown is between types of tourists. Domestic vs. foreign tourism. Does the revenue generated by Chinese traveling abroad count as foreign tourism? I would guess it probably does. It's currently difficult for Chinese citizens to leave the country except for business or official reasons. 

 

What I really wonder is how much the Chinese economy misses the Dollars and Euros of foreign tourists visiting China. No doubt the virtual absence of foreign tourists arriving on Chinese soil is having an impact on the Travel Sector in China, such as transportation, hotels, restaurants, travel agencies and tourism infrastructure.

 

What I wish I knew is whether the powers that make top-level decisions are feeling enough of a pinch to relax some of the regulations anytime soon. How have they prioritized a change in the status quo?  

 

Quote

It will be interesting if China continues tight controls on those entering the country. 

 

Well said. I agree with you!

 

[889]

In the early decades of the open-door policy, foreign tourism was a big source of foreign exchange for China. But for at least 20 years I think it's been nominal in comparison with trade.

 

Ultimately if and when China re-opens will be a political decision made as all big political decisions are made in China these days.

[889]

Don't even bother dreaming.

 

"Shenzhen has again tightened its quarantine measures, picking back up the '14+7' quarantine policy. Shenzhen authorities have announced that all overseas travelers and Hong Kong citizens entering Shenzhen will have to undergo a 14-day quarantine at quarantine hotels before being transferred to a seven-day community-administered isolation. All inbound travelers are required to take four nucleic acid tests on the first, fourth, seventh and 14th day, during their quarantine. And a fifth one will be given on the 21st day at the end of the community-administered isolation."

 

https://www.thestandard.com.hk/breaking-news/section/4/171711/Shenzhen-tightens-quarantine-measures-for-inbound-travelers

 

 

[arreke]

On 3/31/2021 at 10:40 AM, mungouk said:

Covid Vaccination Registration Now Open, Spaces Filling Up Quickly.

https://www.smartshanghai.com/articles/activities/covid-vaccination-registration-now-open-spaces-filling-up-qr-code-inside

 

update: According to the comments section on this Expat Focus post, foreigners have also been getting vaccinated in Wuhan, Kunshan, Nanning, Xiangtan, Chengdu, Hangzhou, Chongqing and Harbin, although some of these could be priority groups who were booked in by their employer. 

 

Are foreigners, who work outside of Shanghai, allowed to be vaccinated in Shanghai? I scanned the QR code, it requires to fill the district and the address of the company, but my company is located in Hangzhou, I don't think I am allowed to fill some fake address

[mungouk]

@arreke — why can't you be vaccinated in Hangzhou (if thats where you currently are)...?

 

I've had both my Sinovac vaccinations now in Hangzhou (Gongshu Qu), within the last 5 weeks.

 

 

[arreke]

@mungouk How did you book an appointment? Do we have to do it by scanning a QR code with Alipay?

[mungouk]

8 minutes ago, arreke said:

How did you book an appointment?

 

I didn't scan any QR codes — the first time I got my jab the HR department at my college arranged it, and I went along with several colleagues. 

The second time (last week) was a bit more random and I went alone, found there were about 300 people outside the clinic (2 hour waiting time, in 29°C), gave up and went home.

 

I was later persuaded to go back and try again later that day (long story — basically last chance to get #2 before they switched to another manufacturer).

 

Maybe it's best if you PM me for more details?

 

 

[suMMit]

I got my first shot a couple days ago. I had to call the clinic (Raffle Medical) and make an appointment a week prior(done by following their WeChat account). They had told my it'd be 93.5 rmb.(Sinopharm). Around a half hour wait. Afterwards, I asked who to pay and they sad it it was free. Not really sure why.