Coronavirus - those in China, and general discussion

[FlyingSesame]

I think the sad thing is that when it comes to exit out of Covid, China has almost become a victim of its own success. “Zero Covid” strategy is now considered politically correct and it is very hard to change that mentality. The best proof of this is the recent controversy involving Dr. Zhang Wenhong, a well-known epidemiologist in Shanghai, who publicly made the comment (and rightly so in my view) about the reality of co-existing with Covid. And not to mention that it is also now a political task for all regional government officials to maintain nil Covid and no one wants to lose their job!

 

There was a recent small local outbreak in my hometown Nanjing. And the same strategy of strict lockdown and city-wide mass testing are adopted. Speaking to family and friends there, it did provoke thoughts about how China may ever open up again, which I recently put together in an article below. Would really love to hear some thoughts from people on the forum here.

 

https://www.flyingsesame.com/china-covid-exit-strategy/

[abcdefg]

Well written article, @FlyingSesame. I agree that it is puzzling to know how China will ever open up again and what form it will take. The Covid-era redefines 改革开封。

 

Quote

The real challenge, though, is that when it comes to China Covid exit strategy, the country is a victim of its own success. The country’s early astounding achievement in battling the pandemic, in a stark contrast to debacles in most parts of the world, has elevated national pride and patriotism. To many Chinese, a zero tolerance towards Covid stands for superior governance. As such, the concept of avoiding Covid at all cost has morphed into a politically correct unspoken rule over time.

 

Well said! 

[889]

Coincidentally, SCMP is running a similar article today.

 

The zero-covid countries have maintained public support for the policy by casting Covid as a danger akin to the Black Death.

 

How do they turn the propaganda machine around and paint it as manageable akin to TB?

 

I have no idea.

 

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/health-environment/article/3145642/how-does-zero-covid-end-hong-kong-australia-and-new

[matteo]

In NZ the government has recently announced a pretty clear phased approach to reopen the border (summarized here https://www.scribd.com/document/519808209/Reconnecting-New-Zealanders-to-the-World#fullscreen&from_embed). 

In the meantime, most agree that elimination is the only sensible strategy to prevent a collapse of the health system and many deaths.

[889]

Was that a typo? Did you mean to say vaccination not elimination?

[matteo]

? no sorry for being confusing, elimination strategy is just the term we use for "Zero Covid" https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-response-planning/covid-19-elimination-strategy-aotearoa-new-zealand

[realmayo]

Can't blame NZ for its current policies but surely Delta changes everything, longer-term? 1. It looks like in most countries in the world, everyone - vaccinated or not - will get Delta at some point. 2. Infection will probably give better and longer protection against reinfection than vaccination alone. If those two statements are true, countries like NZ will have to stay shut forever, or allow repeated mini-outbreaks (like fire specialists allowing controlled burns in national parks).

 

Much easier for China: just blame foreigners.

[Insectosaurus]

6 hours ago, matteo said:

In the meantime, most agree that elimination is the only sensible strategy to prevent a collapse of the health system

 

If this is true this is a bit surprising to me, considering New Zealanders have access to free press.

[mungouk]

Taiwan's now allowing international students to apply for visas again, capped at 13,000:

 

13,000 foreign students can now start applying to enter Taiwan
Taiwan opened process for international students to enter Taiwan on Aug. 24

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4276222

 

 

 

 

[realmayo]

On 9/4/2021 at 5:58 AM, mungouk said:

Taiwan's now allowing international students to apply for visas again

Glimmer of light! A previous article suggests that full-degree students will get priority for this initial 13,000 batch; there will be subsequent batches; once these students are in, they'll probably consider short-term mandarin students.

[mungouk]

Several recent threads have discussed how it's "impossible" to get into China right now.

 

Yes, it's very difficult, but I'd like to add that here in Hangzhou we've had 3 or 4 new teachers join us, mostly (I think) from outside China. Certainly one from Malaysia (whose embassy was completely closed for several months) and another from Pakistan, if I'm not mistaken.

 

They had to quarantine for 28 days (!) but they did get here in the end. 

 

So, it's not impossible to enter China for work, but it's still a huge challenge.

 

Tourist and student visas on the other hand are still very unlikely to be approved from what we've all been reading.

 

 

[Demonic_Duck]

On 9/19/2021 at 4:23 PM, mungouk said:

we've had 3 or 4 new teachers join us, mostly (I think) from outside China.

 

Would love to know how they did this, especially if any from the UK. I started a China-based job in January, with every expectation that I'd be able to get back there within a few months after jumping through a few extra hoops. Suffice to say, that still hasn't happened, because I couldn't get a PU letter due to a technicality, and they haven't updated the vaccine rules in months, with no indication of when if ever they'll be brought in line with common sense. I'm fully vaccinated with Moderna, but that means nothing because it's not Chinese-developed.

 

Meanwhile, my girlfriend has no way of leaving the country, even temporarily, due to the quarantine requirements and the demands of her job. It blows my mind that I haven't seen my girlfriend in almost 2 years and have literally no way of knowing (like, not even a single clue) when I'll be able to see her next. And I know I'm not the only one in a similar situation, as just the other day I heard about a friend of a friend in the same boat.

[abcdefg]

On 9/19/2021 at 11:14 AM, Demonic_Duck said:

And I know I'm not the only one in a similar situation, as just the other day I heard about a friend of a friend in the same boat.

 

Similar, but not identical, situation for me. Really sucks. 

[mackie1402]

On 9/20/2021 at 12:14 AM, Demonic_Duck said:

It blows my mind that I haven't seen my girlfriend in almost 2 years and have literally no way of knowing (like, not even a single clue) when I'll be able to see her next. And I know I'm not the only one in a similar situation, as just the other day I heard about a friend of a friend in the same boat.

 

I know the feeling! So far no one in my family has met my son, and he's nearly 2 years old now! Since then, my wife is now pregnant with our second. It's looking like the next time I see my family back in the UK, we would have gone from no kids to two kids! I keep telling my family I'll definitely come back for Christmas with my son, but it's virtually impossible. Most Brits I knew left the country when COVID came, so trying to get a British passport for my son is a nightmare as there's no one to vouch that it's really him and sign his photo. If I can find someone, the application takes 3 months anyway! The other option was to get a Chinese passport and a British visa, but China has halted all new applications for passports, except for people studying or working abroad (as they wouldn't be coming back into the country any time soon.) 

[Serg]

On 9/19/2021 at 6:14 PM, Demonic_Duck said:

Would love to know how they did this, especially if any from the UK. I started a China-based job in January, with every expectation that I'd be able to get back there within a few months after jumping through a few extra hoops. Suffice to say, that still hasn't happened, because I couldn't get a PU letter due to a technicality, and they haven't updated the vaccine rules in months, with no indication of when if ever they'll be brought in line with common sense. I'm fully vaccinated with Moderna, but that means nothing because it's not Chinese-developed.

 

Meanwhile, my girlfriend has no way of leaving the country, even temporarily, due to the quarantine requirements and the demands of her job. It blows my mind that I haven't seen my girlfriend in almost 2 years and have literally no way of knowing (like, not even a single clue) when I'll be able to see her next. And I know I'm not the only one in a similar situation, as just the other day I heard about a friend of a friend in the same boat.

I find myself in a similar situation. I got a Chinese government scholarship and should have been allowed in China by last year, yet the coronavirus happened and I'm still here. Taking online classes sucks and there is a time difference of 6 hours between my country and China. I haven't seen my girlfriend in almost 2 years and she can't come either. Shit sucks, but at least we aren't alone in this. 加油.

[ptyfriend]

On 9/19/2021 at 8:58 PM, Serg said:

I find myself in a similar situation. I got a Chinese government scholarship and should have been allowed in China by last year, yet the coronavirus happened and I'm still here. Taking online classes sucks and there is a time difference of 6 hours between my country and China. I haven't seen my girlfriend in almost 2 years and she can't come either. Shit sucks, but at least we aren't alone in this. 加油.

Same here! Haven’t seen my girlfriend in a year and a half… I also got the scholarship to go to China last year and I’m still at home. It really sucks to be in this position, but knowing that I’m not the only does bring me some comfort. Let’s hope for the best! 加油

[RedInkstone]

Team “I just went home for the 2019/2020 semester break and got stuck outside of China” reporting for duty! 

 

I am just lucky that my best friend and flatmate is of Chinese descent and her family went to our place (though we were studying in the north and they live in the south), picked up all of our stuff and got the guys at 我爱我家 to terminate our contract early. We are both eagerly waiting for the day we can go back and at least spend some time there, see her family again, eat good food and pick up our stuff. 

 

Our uni handled the who Situation rather poorly, telling students to “just go to their respective home countries for one to two months until the situation is over”. One girl I know now works a part time job here in Europe just to cover the cost of her rent in China, despite not being there for 1.5 years now. 

[Weyland]

Did any of you become more pro-China/Socialism during this Pandemic?

For those wishing to stay anonymous I've created a poll.

[Demonic_Duck]

@Weyland Poll is flawed. People might have become more anti-China at the same time as more pro-socialism or vice-versa. China doesn't have a monopoly on socialism (and arguably isn't even a good example of socialism).

 

Personally I'd say I became slightly more pro-both, but for reasons independent of each other. I'd also say China itself has become slightly more socialist during the pandemic. But it's also become significantly more inward-looking, which is definitely a negative trend given the challenges facing the world.

[Jan Finster]

Those of you currently in China:

 

What is the situation regarding COVID now? Is the situation in Shanghai really as bad as the news suggests? What about the rest of China/HKK?

 

Also, what is China's COVID strategy? Do they still adhere to zero-COVID or is there a plan to gradually get herd immunity?